Re: Frames, Captions, and Graphic Placement

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From: Colin Higbie (CHigbie_at_nospamxxxAptagen.com)
Date: 01/08/05 

Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 13:45:19 -0500

Thanks, I'm in the process of trying the inline option and it does seem to
help. I see it maintains the benefit of frames of keeping the captions
available for referencing and performing field updates. I recall that I had
decided at one point to change the default paste behavior to Top and Bottom
instead of Inline. I think I did that to keep the picture always separated
from the text. But if it's creating more problems than it's solving, I'll
revert back to the inline default.

Related question: should I use frames at all in this case? I practically
turn red and want to throw my computer out a window when I drag around a
text or graphics box and Word magically throws it onto another page or just
refuses to move it, or disappears it altogether. I haven't yet observed if
frames are immune to this behavior, but I think I've seen some indication
that they can also cause those horrible problems (let's just admit that
they're bugs).

If they do bounce around like that, I'd rather just keep everything inline
and loose, except for those few cases where I need to position the graphic
in a fixed fashion relative to the page, rather than a paragraph.

Of all the problems I have with Word, the inability to control placement is
by far the worst to me (especially coming from WordPerfect, which just plain
works - this is easily enough to drive me back to WordPerfect and forgo the
compatibility benefits of Word, and let's face it, that's about the only
reason to prefer Word to WordPerfect). It seems this has been an ongoing bug
since at least Word 97, the last time I used Word and dumped it in
frustration for WordPerfect (at that time over Word's inability to do any
advanced controls over data in a mail-merge). Do you know if this is
something MS is even trying to fix? I truly don't understand how this can be
considered acceptable behavior in a mainstream application.

    - Colin

"Suzanne S. Barnhill" <sbarnhill@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:eufxpPa9EHA.3640@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> You might try a different approach instead. Word inserts a caption in a
> text
> box only if the object you're captioning is wrapped (not In Line With
> Text).
> If the graphic is inline, Word puts the caption in an ordinary text
> paragraph.
>
> You can insert your graphic inline, add the caption (in a separate
> paragraph, so that each paragraph can have its own style), then select
> both
> graphic and caption together and insert a frame (using the Insert Frame
> button on the Forms toolbar or the Frame command that you add back to the
> Insert menu). The graphic and caption will then stay together, and you
> have
> many of the same wrapping and positioning options you have with a text box
> or wrapped object. You can't put a frame in front of or behind text, but
> usually you won't be wanting to do this for a figure or table, anyway.
>
> Whenever possible, just leave the graphics inline (this is especially
> appropriate for Tables, which can be broken across pages). Format your
> graphic paragraph style as "Keep with next" (assuming the caption is below
> it), and the graphic and caption will stay together (if the caption is
> above
> the table/figure, then set the caption style as "Keep with next").
>
> --
> Suzanne S. Barnhill
> Microsoft MVP (Word)
> Words into Type
> Fairhope, Alabama USA
> Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
> Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup
> so
> all may benefit.
>
> "Colin Higbie" <CHigbie@nospamxxxAptagen.com> wrote in message
> news:OtBwOEa9EHA.3476@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>> I understand that the default way Word inserts captions and references
> makes
>> them unsearchable, unable to be autoreferenced (in a TOC or index), and
>> inaccessible to the Update Field command (a real pain if the numbers end
> up
>> off for any reason). I'm using Word 2003 with all the latest patches on
>> Windows XP w/SP2.
>>
>> I have been converting all my caption text boxes to frames, as
> recommended.
>> It does seem to address these problems. I hope this is the right thing to
>> do?
>>
>> My main question: Assuming that's correct (that I should be using frames
> for
>> captions instead of the default text boxes), is there any way to get Word
> to
>> insert Captions automatically in frames instead of text boxes?
>>
>> I have dozens of figures and tables and still need to insert dozens more.
> I
>> number each like: Table CH#-TBL# (e.g. Table 10-3, would be the third
> table
>> in Chapter 10). The document so far is about 150 pages. I really don't
> want
>> to have to insert every caption manually, then re-select the text box, go
>> into the properties, and convert it to a frame. There must be an easier
>> way... right?
>>
>> Related question: regardless of how a I get my captions to be frames,
> should
>> I then put the associated graphic (all the figures and tables are
>> actually
>> graphics) inside the frame with the caption, or can I just leave that
> loose
>> as a pasted picture, each anchored to a nearby paragraph? If it makes any
>> difference, the vast majority of these graphics are paste-linked to
> another
>> file so they can be edited easily.
>>
>> Some of the graphics I want to appear at specific places on the page (it
>> seems to work well for those to specify a position relative to the page),
>> but most I want to flow with the text (these seem to be more
>> troublesome).
>>
>> Any advice here would be very helpful. I'm quite frustrated with Word
>> bouncing my graphics to the edges of the page or other pages, breaking
>> widow-orphan settings, etc.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Colin
>>
>>
>

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Lost Captions, Out of Sequence Captions, ...
    ... Probably you know that graphics can be inserted either "In Line with Text" ... | Caption), you get a caption that is plain text. ... text around the frame. ... you *can't* do is anchor it to a specific page: it will always appear on the ...
    (microsoft.public.word.formatting.longdocs)
  • Re: AutoCaptions & Pictures in Word 2003
    ... There doesn't seem to be an "Insert Frame" ... > the caption will also be inline instead of in a text box. ... >> When I activate it for the insertion of graphics files, ...
    (microsoft.public.word.pagelayout)
  • Re: Lost Captions, Out of Sequence Captions, ...
    ... Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org ... Always insert graphics inline whenever possible; ... graphic and its plain-text caption and insert both in a frame, ... If you do put the graphic+caption in a frame, ...
    (microsoft.public.word.formatting.longdocs)
  • Re: AutoCaptions & Pictures in Word 2003
    ... Format both caption and graphic as In Line With Text (that is, ... Frame to set the wrapping and, if wrapped, the position. ... >>> When I activate it for the insertion of graphics files, ...
    (microsoft.public.word.pagelayout)
  • Re: Frames, Captions, and Graphic Placement
    ... My general rule is to keep everything inline unless there's a compelling ... reason to use a frame or text box and then to prefer a frame over a text box ... Floating graphics, of course, need neither frame nor text ... >> If the graphic is inline, Word puts the caption in an ordinary text ...
    (microsoft.public.word.docmanagement)