Re: Word causing reboot

From: Beth Melton (bmelton_at_NoSpam4Memvps.org)
Date: 02/19/04 

Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 12:20:31 -0600

Hi Mike,

Let's put some perspective on your comments.

I've been supporting this group for several years and 99% of errors
that are encountered when you start Word are covered in the FAQ.

If all posters searched previous threads, Google Groups, MS KB, etc
when they encounter errors starting Word then they would find the
solution before posting in the newsgroup and we would not see the same
questions asked over and over.

Now, I suspect the underlying issue is based on advice you received in
this newsgroup. I took a look at your previous posts here and noted
you were directed to the FAQ after stating you reviewed the mvps.org
site. Based on the description of the problem I highly doubt an MVP
would not direct you to the FAQ. I can see how that response would be
frustrating. <sigh>

Regarding working directly off a floppy disk:

This is advice that will ~never~ fail.

First here is some background on what happens when Word performs a
save:

Word creates a temp file in the same location as the document.
(basically two versions of the file on the floppy during this step)
Then it deletes original file and renames temp to take the place of
the original file.

Various issues are encountered when working directly off a floppy in
Word:

1. If two versions of the document (the temp and original), any temp
files that are created in the source folder, and or backup copies of
the document, are too large for the floppy then various issues are
encountered (these are just a few off the top of my head):

    * If using an unpatched version of Word 2000 a bug could be
encountered which deletes deleted the document from the disk. NOT
good. Here's the documenting KB article:
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=249859

    * Instead of "Drive too full" many users encounter an error along
the lines of: "Word cannot complete the save due to a file permission
error". The file permission error is due to the inability to fully
create the new document during the save. Upon occasion some temp files
needed for the new document are deleted and of course are needed later
which results in a corrupt document. And I'm sure you will agree the
message is a bit cryptic:

Here's a Google search on this issue:
http://groups.google.com/groups?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=%27file+permission%27+floppy+word

2. Word performs some clean up on the document when it is closed. If
the floppy disk is removed before the document is closed it can lead
to document corruption.

3. Some users wish to save the document to multiple floppies. If the
disk is switched too soon then various temp files Word writes can not
be located when needed. And of course this leads to document
corruption.

4. Microsoft added an option as of Word 2002 for removable media. If
this was not an issue there would be no need to add an option.

Background:

Under Tools/Options/Save there is an option for: "Make local copy of
files stored on network or removable drives". If there isn't 3MG of
available disk space then it copies the file to the local drive for
you and then replaces it once it is saved.

Issues with this option:
 * It is not turned on by default. This option can be turned on but
user preferences are reset to the defaults it is turned off. This, of
course, brings us back to the underlying problem.
  * No one really knows if this option works 'as advertised' nor is
anyone who has encountered a corrupt document due to working directly
off a floppy willing to see if it really works. ;-)

4. I've come across several cautionary statements in various KB
articles regarding working directly off a floppy. Here's one for
example http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=173564:

"NOTE: Due to the advanced file handling techniques employed with the
Office family of applications, it is not recommended that you
routinely open and save Office documents using diskettes."

Even Microsoft recommends working directly off a floppy disk. :-) 

-- 
Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email can not be acknowledged.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP
Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/
"Mike Goodson" <mikegoodson@economist.com> wrote in message
news:ukDZaVu9DHA.3820@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> Suzanne,
>
> I don't mean to attack you personally but I have posted and read
loads of
> messages in this specific newsgroup and the most frustrating reply
is the
> "See http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/AppErrors/ProbsOpeningWord.htm". This
is not
> really helpful as most of us who post are "technical" and are
capable of
> searching the MVP and Microsoft Tech Support websites first for
solutions
> (and yes sometimes they do have the solutions). We post here if we
cannot
> find the answer elsewhere.
>
> And I have never heard anything so ridiculous as "Never open a file
from a
> floppy, never save to a floppy" and I have been in I.T for 15
years!! Maybe
> you will be advising Brian next that his problem is due to "memory
burnout".
>
> Come on MVP's, please try and help us, don't treat us like idiots
who have
> never switched a PC on before!!
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Mike
>
>
> "Suzanne S. Barnhill" <sbarnhill@mvps.org> wrote in message
> news:Osg$vWj9DHA.3012@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > Oh, well, the problem is in opening a file from a floppy,
something you
> > should never do. Always copy to the HD first, then open.
Similarly, never
> > save directly to a floppy; save the to HD, then copy to the
floppy.
> >
> > --
> > Suzanne S. Barnhill
> > Microsoft MVP (Word)
> > Words into Type
> > Fairhope, Alabama USA
> > Word MVP FAQ site: http://www.word.mvps.org
> > Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the
newsgroup
> so
> > all may benefit.
> >
> > "Brian" <slider@capecod.net> wrote in message
> > news:69156115.0402180524.62a40169@posting.google.com...
> > > Thank you but I've been there. I tried a few of those
suggestions but
> > > it doesn't explain why it only happens with the files that came
from
> > > the floppy. Other Word docs open just fine w/o forcing the
machine to
> > > reboot.
> > >
> > > "Suzanne S. Barnhill" <sbarnhill@mvps.org> wrote in message
> > news:<uoBDTrd9DHA.1504@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl>...
> > > > See http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/AppErrors/ProbsOpeningWord.htm
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Suzanne S. Barnhill
> > > > Microsoft MVP (Word)
> > > > Words into Type
> > > > Fairhope, Alabama USA
> > > > Word MVP FAQ site: http://www.word.mvps.org
> > > > Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to
the
> > newsgroup so
> > > > all may benefit.
> > > >
> > > > "Brian" <slider@capecod.net> wrote in message
> > > > news:69156115.0402171210.3ce6c1e6@posting.google.com...
> > > > > All:
> > > > >
> > > > > I've done some searching but haven't found anything that
explains
> this
> > > > > problem. A user has a floppy disk with Word docs on it. If
she
> > > > > attempts to open the docs on a certain machine, the machine
opens
> the
> > > > > doc in Word and then reboots. No errors, no warnings, just a
reboot.
> > > > > Copied files to the C:\ drive, same result. Tried the floppy
in MY
> > > > > machine and all is fine. Open any OTHER Word docs on the
suspect
> > > > > machine and everything is fine. Scanned floppy for viruses
and it's
> > > > > clean. Suspect machine: W2K SP4, all patches, O2K SP3 all
patches.
> > > > > There are 25 other machines identical to the one in question
and
> they
> > > > > don't have the problem.
> > > > >
> > > > > Any thoughts?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks.
> > > > >
> > > > > Brian
> >
>
>

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