Re: TFAT stability

Hi!

I have took FMD files and FAL library from WinCe5.0 evaluation version and
put it in my WinCe4.2 image. After some overnight tests we have concluded
that image is running much better then before although there are still
problems. A few files has gone missing but in general the filesystem has
survived the powercycles. But those files which are missing are very
important so this is not acceptable too. We have autoscanning disabled and we
performed scan afterwards. It freezes.
Any comments?

Thanks, Jernej

"Marco Contenti" wrote:

> turnsek ha scritto:
> > So you think there is no solution to stabilize the filesystem?
> Not necessarily: it depends on how Microsoft implemented FAL.
> Unfortunately there is no source code or documentation on that.
> If the 5.0 implementation is ok, as Chris Tacke was told by MS, it's
> just a matter of replacing a few files in the WINCE420 tree, i.e.:
> PUBLIC\COMMON\OAK\LIB\$(_CPUINDPATH)\fal.*
> This doesn't even require a build of 5.0, just install an evaluation
> copy and get the files.
>
> Regards.
>
> Marco
>
> >
> > "Marco Contenti" wrote:
> >
> >
> >>The problem is rather simple: if you look at how the msflash block
> >>driver is implemented, you can see that disk-like 512-byte sectors are
> >>mapped plain linearly to flash memory. Well, what if you must write a
> >>sector in a flash block already in use? You need to back up data
> >>somewhere, erase the 128k block (which can take 1 second) and restore
> >>the modified block content.
> >>All this is done in the FAL (Flash Abstraction Layer), which is not
> >>documented. Are we sure that FAL can recover, say, if power fails in the
> >>middle of a block erase?
> >>Note: TFAT knows nothing of flash blocks. It does safe transactions with
> >>512-byte sectors.
> >>Using a CF card leaves the task of virtualizing 512-byte sectors out of
> >>a flash array to the microcontroller firmware inside the card, which is
> >>supposed to be heaviliy tested.
> >>
> >>Regards.
> >>
> >>Marco Contenti
> >>PROJECT s.a.s. (WEP)
> >>www.projectsas.it
> >>marco.contenti@<see domain above>
> >>
> >>turnsek ha scritto:
> >>
> >>>Thanks for the reply.
> >>>
> >>>The problem is we don't have the WinCE5.0 yet.
> >>>We have turned off AutoScan and the platform seems to be stable (for now).
> >>>We are perfoming powerdown and powerup tests for now and we'll see if it will
> >>>survive overnight. I shure hope so.
> >>>Regarding the AutoScan, I think the filesystem moust be unmounted during
> >>>this scan and as that is not protected from powerdowns. This might be the
> >>>problem during powerup. So I have removed AutoScan and we will see. I shure
> >>>hope so that there is no bug in the TFAT implementation or Msflash block
> >>>driver implementation.
> >>>
> >>>O, yes. We have another platform with WCE4.2 and SH3 processor with CF card.
> >>>The configuration is almost the same. TFAT filesystem is on the CF card and
> >>>we don't have any problems. We had similar problems with FAT filesystem, but
> >>>when we switched on TFAT, everything was ok. So, the problem may be in block
> >>>driver and not the TFAT. What do You think?
> >>>
> >>>Thanks, Jernej
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>"<ctacke/>" wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>I've actually got an open case with Microsoft on this issue. Their first
> >>>>suggestion, which I'm in the process of implementing, was to take the TFAT
> >>>>stuff from CE 5.0 and pull it into my 4.2 platform and see if that fixes it.
> >>>>I'm not done yet, so I don't know if it fixes the problem, but you might try
> >>>>the same.
> >>>>
> >>>>-Chris
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>"turnsek" <turnsek@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> >>>>news:2617B633-7B34-41D8-A06F-7035956A920A@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Yes, the flash modifying is the issue here, but why? I have tried to
> >>>>>remove
> >>>>>the registry hives from the flash to RAM and now my filesystem crushes,
> >>>>>but
> >>>>>at least the platform boot itself (ethernet is working etc.). All files
> >>>>>are
> >>>>>missing on my storage card (we are using Intel StrataFlash J3). I have
> >>>>>also
> >>>>>tried to make two partitions, both with files written to them. In normal
> >>>>>operation the application is only on the first patiition and all the
> >>>>>wriiting
> >>>>>and reading is done to that partiion. After crash, only files on this
> >>>>>partition are missing. The second one is ok.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Do I have some registry settings wrong for the TFAT or is it something
> >>>>>else?
> >>>>>I have check the newsgroups and it seems to me that a lot of folks are
> >>>>>having
> >>>>>this kind of problems. But there is no solution proposed except for "UPS
> >>>>>kind" of backup during power down. This is not an option for us. Microsoft
> >>>>>also said that TFAT is safe and stable. Ok, there could be an issue with
> >>>>>the
> >>>>>msflash strata driver, but that is also supplied by them. So, where is the
> >>>>>catch? I' ve ruled out the hardware problem, because there is the
> >>>>>consistency
> >>>>>about filesystem crash. If it would be hardware then there would be
> >>>>>problems
> >>>>>with image and bootloader too and not with filesystem only.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Thanks, Jernej
> >>>>>
> >>>>>"Bruce Eitman (eMVP)" wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>I have also seen these failures on a few platforms, both CE 4.2 and 5.0.
> >>>>>>I
> >>>>>>think that it has a lot to do with background compaction and removing
> >>>>>>power
> >>>>>>while the flash is being modified.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>--
> >>>>>>Bruce Eitman (eMVP)
> >>>>>>Senior Engineer
> >>>>>>beitman AT applieddata DOT net
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Applied Data Systems
> >>>>>>www.applieddata.net
> >>>>>>An ISO 9001:2000 Registered Company
> >>>>>>Microsoft WEP Gold-level Member
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>"turnsek" <turnsek@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> >>>>>>news:A6C143B2-6D21-49DF-8F05-B5950ECE3A2A@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Hi all!
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>We have PXA255 based platform with WCE42 and we are testing stability
> >>>>>>>of
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>platform. Our hardware is not battery backed and we rely on powerdown
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>driver
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>and TFAT file system. We have noticed that after number of power down
> >>>>>>>and
> >>>>>>>power up cycles (quite a lot) our platform dies. We have flash resident
> >>>>>>>persistent registry (hive based). Platform could not start anymore. I
> >>>>>>>am
> >>>>>>>suspecting that the file-system is corrupted (so the registry too). We
> >>>>>>>are
> >>>>>>>using msflash strata driver.
> >>>>>>>Our settings are:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\StorageManager]
> >>>>>>>"Dll"="fsdmgr.dll"
> >>>>>>> "PNPUnloadDelay"=dword:0
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>; @CESYSGEN IF CE_MODULES_STRATAD
> >>>>>>>; HIVE BOOT SECTION
> >>>>>>>; StrataFlash block driver.
> >>>>>>>[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Drivers\BuiltIn\StrataFMD]
> >>>>>>> "Dll"="stratad.dll"
> >>>>>>> "Order"=dword:2
> >>>>>>> "Prefix"="DSK"
> >>>>>>> "Ioctl"=dword:4
> >>>>>>> "Profile"="MSFlash"
> >>>>>>> "IClass"="{A4E7EDDA-E575-4252-9D6B-4195D48BB865}"
> >>>>>>> "MemBase"=dword:b9300000
> >>>>>>> "MemLen"=dword:03000000
> >>>>>>> "Flags"=dword:1000
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>; Override names in default profile
> >>>>>>>[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\StorageManager\Profiles\MSFlash]
> >>>>>>> "Name"="MSFLASH for STRATAFLASH"
> >>>>>>>"Folder"="Storage Card"
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\StorageManager\Profiles]
> >>>>>>> "AutoMount"=dword:1
> >>>>>>> "AutoPart"=dword:1
> >>>>>>> "AutoFormat"=dword:1
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>; Keep FATFS from trying to shadow \Windows
> >>>>>>>[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\StorageManager\Profiles\MSFlash\FATFS]
> >>>>>>> "MountFlags"=dword:2
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\StorageManager\AutoLoad\MSFlash]
> >>>>>>> "DriverPath"="Drivers\\BuiltIn\\StrataFMD"
> >>>>>>> "LoadFlags"=dword:1
> >>>>>>> "Order"=dword:0
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>; END HIVE BOOT SECTION
> >>>>>>>; @CESYSGEN ENDIF CE_MODULES_STRATAD
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>; @CESYSGEN IF FILESYS_FSREGHIVE
> >>>>>>>; HIVE BOOT SECTION
> >>>>>>>[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\init\BootVars]
> >>>>>>> "SYSTEMHIVE"="Registry\\system.hv"
> >>>>>>> "PROFILEDIR"="Registry"
> >>>>>>> "Start DevMgr"=dword:1
> >>>>>>> "DefaultUser"="Iskraemeco"
> >>>>>>> ;Causing some debugchk's in debug version,
> >>>>>>> ;performance monitoring tools doesn't work.
> >>>>>>> ;RegistryFlags"=dword:1
> >>>>>>>; END HIVE BOOT SECTION
> >>>>>>>; @CESYSGEN ENDIF FILESYS_FSREGHIVE
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\StorageManager\FATFS]
> >>>>>>> "FriendlyName"="FAT FileSystem"
> >>>>>>> "Dll"="fatfsd.dll"
> >>>>>>> ;"Flags"=dword:00000024
> >>>>>>>"Flags"=dword:007C0028
> >>>>>>> "Paging"=dword:1
> >>>>>>> "EnableCache"=dword:1
> >>>>>>> "CacheSize"=dword:0
> >>>>>>> "Util"="fatutil.dll"
> >>>>>>>"FormatTfat"=dword:1
> >>>>>>>; END HIVE BOOT SECTION
> >>>>>>>; @CESYSGEN ENDIF CE_MODULES_FATFSD
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Any help would be more then welcome.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Thanks, Jernej
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
>
.