Re: Fast Start-up

With the exception that the CPU is in a very low powerstate also in a
typical suspend state.

But, you could theoretically use information in RAM to make a decision on
boot about the reset cause. So even though it is a power reset, you could
resume. That would speed things up.

CE does not define the power of the board in suspend, the OEM does. The OEM
can handle OEMPowerOff any way that works for their product.

Most of the boot time and resume time is in the OEM code.

--
Bruce Eitman (eMVP)
Senior Engineer
beitman AT applieddata DOT net

Applied Data Systems
www.applieddata.net
An ISO 9001:2000 Registered Company
Microsoft WEP Gold-level Member

"<ctacke/>" <ctacke[at]opennetcf[dot]com> wrote in message
news:ejsCQF%23kHHA.4848@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
"Everything off but RAM" really is a suspend, not an "off" condition (yes,
this is what WM PDAs do). Restoring from that state is measured in
milliseconds. Exactly how long depends on what drivers you have and what
they do on power up.


--

Chris Tacke, Embedded MVP
OpenNETCF Consulting
Managed Code in an Embedded World
www.OpenNETCF.com



"Bage" <Bage Mk at hotamil dot com> wrote in message
news:um48BC%23kHHA.3484@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
No. This is an extremely low power device - it will have built in, very
light batteries and they must operate without replacement or recharge
for weeks.

This isn't a PDA, a phone, a media player or a sat-nav system.
Unfortunately, if I said what it was - I wouldn't be working on it any
longer!

It genuinely has valid requirements for the power issues. I can satisfy
the power requirements with a small embbeded RTOS. However, CE will make
a lot of the other development easier. But there are doubts about the
power requirements of CE.

I've looked at the MSDN docs - but would like clarification. Does the CE
definition of suspend allow switching everything off except RAM?

If it does; has anyone any experience of how long it takes to come back?
To give me some idea - Is the CE suspend state the same as used by a WM5
PDA in it's "off" state?

Bage




"Bruce Eitman [eMVP]" <beitman.nospam@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
message news:uIMqcz8kHHA.4960@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
If you can keep the RAM live, then why can't you just suspend? That is
the whole reason for suspend. This sounds like a hardware problem that
someone wants you to solve in software. I assume that you are running
on something like a car battery, and nobody wants your device to
accidentally drain that battery. So why not put in a backup battery
that allows you to suspend?

--
Bruce Eitman (eMVP)
Senior Engineer
beitman AT applieddata DOT net

Applied Data Systems
www.applieddata.net
An ISO 9001:2000 Registered Company
Microsoft WEP Gold-level Member

"Bage" <Bage Mk at hotamil dot com> wrote in message
news:ud1Tl07kHHA.4852@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I've a similar problem.

In the device we're building, to keep the power down the CPU will be
off most of the time. As soon as the operator presses a button, it will
start the CPU (an ARM). Then we have to get our app responding at a
human-expectation speed (<1s). I can do this with a simple RTOS. But
Windows CE includes a significant number of other benefits.

We can keep the RAM live, if that helps.

Can someone advise as to whether such a fast start from a "cold" CPU is
possible with Windows CE.

Thanks,

Bage


"Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]" <p space tobey no spam AT no instrument no spam
DOT com> wrote in message news:eLeYDDykHHA.596@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Fast I/O or no I/O for loading the OS. If RAM access on your hardware
is very fast, copying the OS from flash or where ever you have it
stored might result in faster boot than executing directly in flash
(you'll have to test). If you're going to be copying the image from
some storage device (like a hard disk), to RAM, you want that device
to be as fast as possible and your code to configure and operate it
(yes, it's in the bootloader; you have to write it), needs to be as
optimized as possible. If you're copying from persistent storage to
RAM, make the OS image as small as possible.

If you're executing directly out of flash, make sure that your
processor settings for the flash region are as optimized as you can
make them without sacrificing reliability.

Faster processors generally boot faster.

Again, though, without a specification that everyone in your team is
willing to commit to as far as how long the battery has to last,
there's a reasonable chance that you're wasting time. Suspend works
very well on a lot of the hardware that CE runs on and buying a bigger
battery is a lot cheaper than spending 6 months hacking 0.5 seconds
off of your cold boot time...

Paul T.

"Steady" <Steady@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:FAD4E635-E550-4D70-8B88-215DD21D89DA@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Thanks,

I will check with the device vendor.

What do you recomend to improve the boot speed?

"Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]" wrote:

You need to be or know well the device vendor to know what is
possible with
respect to power management. Trying to do something good without
knowing is
likely to be a big waste of time. Pocket PC devices, even phones,
which are
essentially never off, have battery lives measured in days with
relatively
small batteries. You need to decide on a specification for how long
the
device is going to live; that will guide you when you decide what
happens
when you "hibernate".

You can improve boot speed, but it's still going to be seconds, not
milliseconds.

Paul T.

"Steady" <Steady@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:9D069B17-4EB0-444C-B55F-DEED83E013A2@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I need to be very careful with the power consumption, and therfore
need to
power down the processor and peripherals. So I'm guessing I need
to either
use a power down and re-boot or some kind of hibernate? In
addittion I
have
had some previous bad experiences with things such as bluetooth
drivers
restarting, and thought a full boot might be safer option.

I have access to platform builder and have made small changes
before. I
have
read somewhere that faster full boot times should be possible.

"Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]" wrote:

You haven't told us anything that would help us there. The
"shutdown"
could
mean anything. It might be suspended, like what a Pocket PC does
after a
few minutes. When you press the power button, it's back on very
quickly,
as
the RAM was maintained, etc. and the processor simply has to be
started
up
where it stopped. It might literally be off, though, in which
case,
you're
doing a full boot of Windows CE and 7 seconds is fantastic. If
this is
not
a device that you build, there's nothing you can do from an
application
program to change the power-down states provided by the device.

Paul T.

"Steady" <Steady@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:C5357105-DA57-4581-B423-F887F4BFDA93@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I'm a releative newbie on wince so sorry if this is obvious.

I have a low power mobile application which requires the O/S to
shutdown
and
then a later time restart quickly. Does anyone have any
suggestions on
how
I
can improve my start-up time (typically about 7 seconds at the
moment).

Thanks.


















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