Re: Can't access Windows Update, no error code

ZoneAlarm is now reinstalled thanks to the help on the ZA forum. After doing
the ZA clean uninstall, and before reinstalling, I again tried Windows update
with the same problem of Windows update failing recurring. I don't
understand what you mean when you say "Check the Services console to see if
there is still a Zone Alarm service still present". Where is this Services
console and how do I access it? I want to get windows update working, and if
this means uninstalling ZoneAlarm again using different instructions, then
I'm happy to do that.

I agree with your advice to obtain software from known, trusted sources. I
wouldn't have considered Windiz in the first place if I could get Windows
update to work. The fact that Windiz is included in Wikipedia without any
negative feedback gave me some level of confidence. If Microsoft hadn't made
my task so difficult, I wouldn't have needed to consider it. Firstly, to use
Windows update, I need to lower my security settings (in breach of the safe
hex practices on the site you quote). Secondly, to use Windows update, I
need to avoid alternate safer browsers and am forced to use IE - which has a
long history of being "buggy" and being targeted by malware - in
contravention of the recommendations of the safe hex practices on the site
you quoted. Thirdly, to use Windows update, I need to find a solution to
this problem, which to-date I haven't been able to do. It's little surprise
that there is such widespread animosity against Microsoft when it apparently
intentionally abuses its effective monopolistic position through practices
such as unreasonably preventing competing web browsers from accessing Windows
updates. But that's another issue, and not my concern here.

Is your suggestion that I manually trawl through the Microsoft download
centre and read Microsoft security bulletins, to try to manually find and
install critical updates for my computer, one-by-one, a practical solution?
Unlike you, I'm no Microsoft guru, and can't afford to waste more time on
long manual processes.

Are you saying that automatic updates will work even if Windows Update
doesn't? If so, this seems practical . However, I had auto update switched
on and it didn't seem to do anything (hence why I lodged this post and tried
Windiz).

MowGreen, I do appreciate your attempts to help. So far no success.


"MowGreen [MVP]" wrote:

(Unfortunately, I now have a problem reinstalling Zone Alarm, so until that is fixed I
feel somewhat exposed when I post to this message board.)

I've worked on systems that could not even *connect* to the net due to
ZA's sloppy uninstall routine.
There are many situations where Zone Alarm does *not* uninstall
correctly. It will leave a driver in use and the only way to remove it,
on XP Home, is to boot to Safe Mode and take Ownership of it, then
delete it.
Check the Services console to see if there is still a Zone Alarm service
still present.
That is the most likely culprit for the inability to reinstall ZA and
the systems inability to successfully negotiate a connection with WU.
The above is not my opinion, it's from my experience working on systems
that had issues when ZA was uninstalled.


If you are happy with Windiz, then by all means use it. I'm not the
" Lord of the Internet " who attempts to dictate how people utilize
their systems. IMHO, obtaining updates from 3rd parties is not Safe Hex.
http://www.claymania.com/safe-hex.html

ALL Critical Security updates that MS issues can be found somewhere on
the MS site.
The Microsoft Download Center is one place:
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/Search.aspx?displaylang=en

The links from the Security Bulletins go to the Download Center. Check
out the Sec Bulletins either late in the day when they come out or the
day after [all scheduled updates come out the second Tueday of the
month. "out of band" releases of Critical Security updates are issued
when MS determines that there is a significant threat due to a PoC being
released for a critical vulnerability and said PoC is being *actively*
utilized] - http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/current.aspx

Plus, one can always use Automatic Updates to obtain them. Of course, AU
must be enabled for that to happen.


MowGreen [MVP 2003-2007]
===============
*-343-* FDNY
Never Forgotten
===============


John69 wrote:

Hi MowGreen,

Thanks, but still no success. Again, I don't understand why you asked me to
uninstall Zone Alarm, given that even when Zone Alarm was not in memory the
problem persisted. However, I've now totally uninstalled Zone Alarm (and
also AVG to totally eliminate it as a possible cause) and when I access the
Windows update site the same problem exists. This means you were wrong to
blame Zone Alarm, doesn't it? Given that Windiz works fine in identifying
and installing needed Windows updates, it would be reasonable to conclude the
problem is actually with the Microsoft site which refuses to do the same
task, wouldn't it? I also notice others have posted similar problems without
response from anyone, so it appears I'm not alone. (Unfortunately, I now
have a problem reinstalling Zone Alarm, so until that is fixed I feel
somewhat exposed when I post to this message board.)

You've said you wouldn't use Windiz. That's a fine stance in theory
(although I've only heard positive things about the site), but at the moment
I have no alternative unless I wish to be exposed to known critical security
holes within Windows. I'm not keen on playing Russian Roulette with malware.

What should I do?

Regards,

"MowGreen [MVP]" wrote:


Zone Alarm Free is the cause of the issue. Advise you to either
uninstall it or consult their web forums -
http://www.zonelabs.com/store/content/support/userForum/userForum_agreement.jsp?dc=12bms&ctry=US&lang=en
Haven't used it in awhile but I do *know* for certain that it may/will
cause issues connecting to WU and/or prevent the proper install of the
ActiveX software if not properly configured.

As far as recommending the site you posted ... I can not. They have an
unsigned plugin or their " WindizUpdate installation program " that then
scans the system for needed updates.
If you Trust them to do the right thing, then allow them to.
I would not.
The issue your system is experiencing is not due to MS or the OS, but
due to the presence of 3rd party software ... in this case, Zone Alarm.


MowGreen [MVP 2003-2007]
===============
*-343-* FDNY
Never Forgotten
===============


John69 wrote:


Hi Mow Greeen,

I don't understand the relevance of your question as when I closed both
these programs, the problem persisted. But the details you've requested are
shown below.

Using Firefox and going to http://windowsupdate.62nds.com/ I've now been
able to secure my system with the latest updates. A much better interface,
plus more functionality. It has annoyed me that M/S unreasonably forced me
to use IE (rather than Firefox) for updates anyway, so finding this site was
a bonus. Do you see any downsides with this method? Should I just dump
efforts to use the Microsoft site for updating, and do you expect that my
ongoing inability to access this Microsoft screen prevent auto updates from
working?

Thanks,

Firewall
ZoneAlarm Free (personal) version
ZoneAlarm version:6.5.737.000
TrueVector version:6.5.737.000
Driver version:6.5.737.000

Antivirus
AVG Antivirus 7.1
Program version: 7.1.408
Virus base 268.13.9/490 released 20/10/06

"MowGreen [MVP]" wrote:



Which firewall and which antivirus programs are installed and what
versions ?

MowGreen [MVP 2003-2007]
===============
*-343-* FDNY
Never Forgotten
===============


John69 wrote:



Thanks, MowGreen,

I made the changes to Privacy & Security, and even after shutting down my
virus scanner & firewall experienced the same problem at the microsoft site.
Any other ideas?

Cheers,

"MowGreen [MVP]" wrote:




Open Internet Options in the Control Panel.
Click the Privacy tab
Click the Settings button under Pop-up Blocker

Down towards the bottom, Under Notifications and Filter Level,
put a check in the "Show Information Bar when a pop-up is blocked" box
Click Close
Click the Security tab
Click the Trusted sites icon
Click the Sites button
Uncheck the box next to " Require server verification ... "
In the " Add thie Web site to the zone " field type in

htttp://update.microsoft.com

Click the Add button
Click OK
Now click the Custom Level button
Under "ActiveX controls and plug-ins" -

Automatic prompting for ActiveX controls - Enable
Binary and script behaviors - Enable
Download signed ActiveX controls - Enable
Run ActiveX controls and plug-ins - Enable
Script ActiveX controls marked safe for scripting - Enable

Scroll down to the Scripting heading
Active scripting - Enable

Click OK
Click Apply, OK

Revisit Windows Update.
If there is a component of the installed Antivirus software that blocks
scripting or ActiveX controls, then go into the softwares
options/preferences to allow the software controls at Windows Update to run.

MowGreen [MVP 2003-2007]
===============
*-343-* FDNY
Never Forgotten
===============


John69 wrote:




When attempting to access Windows Update, the following screen appears, with
no error message, and fails to progress to a different screen:

"Checking if your computer has the latest version of Windows updating
software for use with the website…

The website uses ActiveX controls to determine which version of the software
your computer is running. If you see an ActiveX warning, make sure the
control is digitally signed by Microsoft before installing it or allowing it
to run. "

The address for this screen is:
http://update.microsoft.com/windowsupdate/v6/default.aspx?ln=en-us

How do I fix this?

Thanks in advance.


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