Re: Reinstalling windows update v4
From: Melelina (Melelina_at_medscape.com)
Date: 08/09/04
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Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 15:12:07 -1000
Why do I need any version of Windows Updates in order to get updates? The
critical patches are posted on the Microsoft download site and I have always
used that a lot more than Windows Update. Now that I have no history carry
over from ver 4 I see even less reason to use WU. We all know to ignore WU
as far as driver updates go. I'm one of those with an nVidia card who is
continually offered an old version of nVidia drivers at WU. When I got this
XP Pro box last November it had an earlier version of nVidia drivers than
what WU offered. Do you think I trusted WU? No, I went to nVidia and got the
drivers there and continue to be offered those drivers at WU even though I
am 4 driver updates above the ones offered. Things like this don't make me
want to place much too much trust in WU.
WU ver 4 is far more reliable than is ver 5. Ver 4 caught several failed
critical patches which were confirmed as failed by Baseline Analyzer,
Qfecheck and Belarc Advisor and by my checking the file versions. WU ver 5
never saw the failed patches and a couple of them were major recent patches.
So, I don't trust ver 5.
If support continues for a year or longer for SP1 then that will be good as
in a year I will probably be ready to buy a new scanner/printer/copier all
in one although I want to wait as long as possible so I don't get into a
mess with a two year old printer, etc. not having a specific driver
submitted for Longhorn as a upgrade to that would be coming soon. This
happened with XP. HP did not submit a driver for my $300 printer for XP and
I have to use the Windows generic driver which denies me greyscale printing
and both side printing thus making printing more expensive.
As for recommendations to not upgrade "soon" I believe Scott Finnie said
wait 30 days and others are saying wait 90 days. There are businesses all
over the world still using W98 (this is why MS extended support) so I don't
see why waiting a year to upgrade to SP2 assuming your business is even on
XP is "verging on incompetence".
As for the scanner manufacturer, I haven't asked them about compatibility
with SP2. I will but the scanner is not compatible with XP itself. It is
only compatible because enough owners got really angry at Visioneer for not
submitting a driver to MS or even having an unapproved driver for this
scanner when they submitted drivers for all their other scanners for XP to
Microsoft. So Visioneer offered us users of this scanner a 25% off a new
Visioneer scanner if we send them the old scanner. I live in Hawaii and the
shipping cost to send the scanner to Visioneer would be about $47 by UPS or
FedX or Airborne Express or even the US Postal Service. So, I would loose
money by doing this. I guess a lot of other users did not want to have to
buy a new scanner either (even if they lived on the Mainland and could ship
the old one to Visioneer cheaply). Visioneer finally put up a "hack" that
they had tried and which appeared to work to allow the W98 software for the
scanner to run on XP. It works but not perfectly as the printer and scanner
don't always communicate and I have to keep trying. I suspect it won't work
at all with SP2 and that Visioneer will feel they helped us enough and won't
be willing to help further but I will ask them.
I do realize there are some things in SP2 that make it not just for newbies
and dummies but that does seem to be the primary targeted groups and they
are the ones least likely to install it as they don't update their av (if
they have one) and don't keep up with critical patches, so why would they be
inclined to install this service pack? The real benefit to the internet in
terms of less malware floating about and less infected computers will come
with those who purchase new computers with SP2 already installed.
"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" <jones_jupiter@hotnomail.com> wrote in message
news:%238D8jaYfEHA.236@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> Melelina;
> My understanding is V5 is necessary for updates.
> You should be able to get some updates as long as you have v5 whether
> you have SP2 or not.
> Except of course any updates that may be dependant on SP2.
>
> Obsolete was a bad word for me to use.
> Support will likely be available for a year or more but can be
> expected to stop at some time as yet undetermined
>
> "warning not to upgrade soon"
> Define soon.
> A week or a month? Understandable, however if those businesses have a
> credible IT department they have already been testing the prerelease
> versions for several months.
> If they haven't, they are verging on incompetence.
> A year or 2? Far to long and same comment above applies.
> SP2 is not just for "newbie's and dummies".
> SP2 may not be for everyone but you do a disservice to many who need
> SP2 and do not fall into that group.
> You need to look a lot closer if you think all who use SP2 are
> "newbie's and dummies"!
>
> What did the scanner manufacturer say when you asked them about
> compatibility with SP2?
>
>
> --
> Jupiter Jones [MVP]
> http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/
>
>
> "Melelina" <Melelina@medscape.com> wrote in message
> news:u4r2XsUfEHA.3964@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> > What? Microsoft has never tied patches to a specific service pack! I
> > can be
> > just as secure with SP1 and all critical patches unless you are
> > saying that
> > MS has decided to ram SP2 down everyone's throat by allowing future
> > patches
> > ONLY if you have SP2? Is that what you are claiming? If that is
> > true, I
> > foresee lawsuits. Most businesses are not going to get SP2 for a
> > long time
> > and people like Scott Finnie are warning not to upgrade soon.
> >
> > SP1 is not obsolete. SP2 is intended for newbies and dummies. My
> > W98SE is
> > not obsolete either and it has IE5.5 on it and all the gloom and
> > doom about
> > using W98SE, especially with IE5.5, has never proven to be any
> > security
> > problem for someone who practices safe hex always. I actually far
> > prefer
> > W98SE to XP Pro. Never again will I let the gloom and doom people
> > scare me
> > into buying a new computer with an OS I detest.
> >
> > Why would I want to use WU5 which has no history and never will? I
> > will use
> > MS download site for my patches and actually that is the best way to
> > do it
> > because that way all patches are saved to disk and can easily be
> > burned. I
> > will run Baseline Analyzer, Qfecheck and Belarc Advisor regularly to
> > see if
> > any patches have failed and need reinstalling. What do I need WU
> > for? I'm
> > not about to enable services such as BITS and Automatic Updating
> > which I
> > never use. I don't want useless services running on my box. The only
> > people
> > who need auto updating are newbies and dummies.
> >
> > Why should I be forced to buy a new scanner just because Microsoft
> > thinks I
> > am a dummie or a newbie? Or incapable or unwilling to practice safe
> > hex?
> >
> >
> > "Jupiter Jones [MVP]" <jones_jupiter@hotnomail.com> wrote in message
> > news:uXdgg4RfEHA.2544@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> >> Melelina;
> >> V4 is on the way out.
> >> SP=1 is soon to be obsolete.
> >>
> >> You should also seek a solution to whatever issues you have.
> >> No v5 and no SP-2 is not a solution.
> >>
> >> You are asking that you not be allowed any updates in the future.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Jupiter Jones [MVP]
> >> http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/
> >>
> >>
> >> "Melelina" <Melelina@medscape.com> wrote in message
> >> news:%23d6h30RfEHA.2468@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> >> > There is no way to fix lost history from version 4. With all the
> >> > problems
> >> > with version 5, I am sure not going to install SP2. We XP users
> >> > who
> >> > do not
> >> > intend to install SP2 should be allowed to use ver 4 (although
> >> > that
> >> > would
> >> > not solve my missing history as ver 5 ate the iuhist.xml file
> >> > from
> >> > ver4).
> >> >
> >> > "Jupiter Jones [MVP]" <jones_jupiter@hotnomail.com> wrote in
> >> > message
> >> > news:O1vsBOCfEHA.2908@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> >> >> George;
> >> >> Eventually v5 will be it.
> >> >> So v4 is a short term solution at best.
> >> >> If you have windows XP, I am told v5 will be the only option
> >> >> once
> >> >> SP-2
> >> >> is released for public distribution.
> >> >>
> >> >> If you are having problems with v5, a better fix is to resolve
> >> >> them.
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Jupiter Jones [MVP]
> >> >> http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> "George Moore" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
> >> >> message
> >> >> news:1b5e01c47c1a$55f41530$a401280a@phx.gbl...
> >> >> > Is going back to windows update v4 a short term solution
> >> >> > to any v5 problems? Will Microsoft eventually
> >> >> > discontinue support to v4 and force every one to go to v5?
> >> >> > What are the benefits of v5 over v4?
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
- Next message: Steve: "repeated update"
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- In reply to: Jupiter Jones [MVP]: "Re: Reinstalling windows update v4"
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