Re: MVPs and Terminal Services

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Nice bit of information! Thank you.

Gregg Hill


"Hal Berenson" <hberenson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:%23sVBZBKRGHA.1608@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I didn't want this to turn into the printer discussion, but...

I'm aware of those choices, but they all turn out to be pretty bad in our
environment. Fallback is terrible when you have no control over what
printers users have (e.g., each user gets a PS and PCL printer defined
even though only one MIGHT work; they get them even if its a LIDIL or
otherwise dysfunctional printer; you lose functionality). Loss of
functionality and management headaches are present for the others. As for
W2K3...they haven't been updating the available drivers. Not in SP1, nor
via Downloads (which they claim to do). So they don't get off on this
one. This wouldn't be so bad if third-party print drivers worked well
with TS. They don't, so Microsoft's entire model for the Printer
ecosystem is broken for the TS world. That's what they need to understand
since the culture there is to rely on the third parties. The TS team
seems to understand this, but the Printer group is in the Windows Client
org not in the Windows Server org (and those orgs are very separated in
the management chain). The Windows Client org has a long term solution
that starts to see the light of day in Vista and Longhorn Server 2007, so
they don't seem motivated to do anything in the short-to-medium term. But
we might all be dead before the long term solution takes sufficient hold
amongst the printer manufacturers that this problem is solved. Phew.

--
Hal Berenson, President
PredictableIT, LLC
http://www.predictableit.com



"Gregg Hill" <bogus@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:%236ADFNJRGHA.1608@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Hal,

Keep in mind that Windows Server 2003 is almost three years old, so I
would not expect it to support all printers sold today. Maybe SP1 added
some?

However, there are several free things you can do to support a lot of the
printers sold today.

Have you tried:
1) Fallback printer driver: enable it in your security GPO, set it to
show both PCL and PS
2) Printer mapping with Printer Redirection Wizard
3) Printer mapping manually

I hope that helps.

Gregg Hill (not an MVP! Be gentle!)


"Hal Berenson" <hberenson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:%23Fc$QnIRGHA.5896@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
The need for third party software is indeed annoying (and a real
financial problem in many cases). The printing one is certainly a big
issue, and it would be accurate to portray that printing in TS (as
delivered from Microsoft) just doesn't work right. I've pointed out to
multiple senior Microsoft executives that no printer currently sold is
supported by Windows Server 2003 (and that use of third-party drivers in
a TS environment is widely frowned upon). You should see the shock in
their eyes. And that catch-22 with 3rd party software needing client
installs is a nightmare in our environment (much easier in
single-company shop that has some control over the clients). I have no
problem hearing bad news like this, I just want to hear it as "that
won't work and here's why". My "complaint" is that sometimes responses
either explicitly say, or can be read as, "why would anyone want to do
THAT?" with no actual attempt to answer the question or explain the
current state of the world.

--
Hal Berenson, President
PredictableIT, LLC
http://www.predictableit.com



"Patrick Rouse" <PatrickRouse@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
message news:7D6B6E6D-1C1A-4C78-B8FB-24696FD7EFD0@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cool. So what is the actual kind of response that you're questioning.
Althought there are a lot of things that can be done on terminal server
with
a lot of manual tweaks and baby-sitting, I often recommend a 3rd party
solution as an alternative, i.e. with printing. It's very common that
people
get upset that we recommend that they spend more money than they
already have
on adding features they're requesting. I point out that they should
inform
the client of the actual features and limitations so the client isn't
p!ssed
off when a 3rd pary add-on is proposed, or you tell them that what they
want
can't be done for what they're paying Delivering TS Hosted apps via
the
internet to an uncontrolled client environment can be very difficult
w/o 3rd
party apps, but 3rd party can also apps introduce the need to install
client
software (caveat)
--
Patrick Rouse
Microsoft MVP - Terminal Server
http://www.sessioncomputing.com


"Hal Berenson" wrote:

Note that I'm not dismissing all the great things that the TS MVPs do
here
(and in other forums), nor forgetting that this is a volunteer effort.
I'm
just trying to raise awareness that often the first response to a
question
that is on the outer boundaries of TS use is well...I already covered
that.

I'm a former MVP myself, and still answer questions in forums where I
have a
lot of expertise. And before that I was at Microsoft, a big supporter
of
the MVP program, and a very active participant in newsgroups. So the
feedback isn't coming from out of the blue. I've seen products where
there
weren't enough experts (MVPs or otherwise) to handle the questions,
and
others where the experts really weren't deep enough to answer, but
this is
the first one where the experts seem to dismiss my use of the product.
That's frustrating.

Yes, Patrick's first answer to a recent question triggered the post.
But
only because I basically had stopped asking questions here (largely
for the
reason give in this post) and the first one back started the same way.
But
Patrick wasn't the target per se. If I had a problem specifically
with his
responses I'd have sent him mail, not posted something publicly. I
started
this thread after Patrick's first reponse to my question but before
his
second. His second was the kind of response I was looking for. And
much
thanks to Patrick for it.

So I'm not trying to seem (nor am I) ungrateful for the help that the
TS
MVPs are providing. I'm just trying to raise awareness on one
specific
"knee jerk" reaction I see (and experience personally).

--
Hal Berenson, President
PredictableIT, LLC
http://www.predictableit.com



"Jeff Pitsch" <jeff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:eVQqN8GRGHA.4572@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Do you really want a response to this because I'm sure I could come
with a
doozy considering the amount of help that is given out for free by
everyone here (not just MVP's).

Jeff Pitsch
Microsoft MVP - Terminal Services
http://www.sbcgatekeeper.com
Your Terminal Services Security Website

"Hal Berenson" <hberenson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:uoRMchGRGHA.4792@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Ok, this is officially a rant.

Every time a TS MVP answers a question it is heavily tinted with
the
apparent view that TS is only used by organizations with large IT
budgets
to provide very limited access to very small and specific
application set
in a very constrainted environment. Now granted this may be the
typical
use of TS, but it is not the only use. There are some of us trying
to
use TS as a general purpose desktop-replacement computing
environment.
Consequently the answers we get to our questions are frequently not
answers at all, but rather just responses that are dismissive about
what
we are trying to accomplish. I'll go as far as to say I often find
them
condescending and occasionally even insulting.

So please, if you think that what someone is trying to do with TS
doesn't
make sense ask what they are trying to accomplish and why it is
important
before suggesting they do something other than solve their problem.

--
Hal Berenson, President
PredictableIT, LLC
http://www.predictableit.com

















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