Re: Two Server Setup Question.

Hi Purtech,

i'm really glad you find it helping.

First of all, the term "external" only refers to something domain
outside your current domain. It doesn't mean coming from the internet and
back. The 2 domain controllers from the 2 domains, could be sitting next to
each other, connected to the same switch. That external trust factor thing
only means that the domains don't trust each other by default in any
directions.

So taking the scenario that we've been talking about and putting in the
external trust thingy. We can derive at this design.

First of all, get your admin domain up first.
You install this normally like you would for a normal domain. I assume
you know how, if you don't, pop over to support.microsoft.com and search for
how to setup a domain controller. Say this domain is school.org. After your
dcpromo the computer to a dc, this dc is said to be a single forest, single
domain.

Second, your other lab domain, lets call this lab.school.org. Don't be
concern by the name, the name doesn't mean its a child domain. Whether its a
child domain or a seperate forest depends on how you install it. For this
machine, you would do a dcpromo on the computer and proceed to install as if
you are installing school.org. DO NOT ADD THIS AS A CHILD DOMAIN OF AN
EXISTING DOMAIN. After you're done, you'll end up with 2 seperate domains in
2 seperate forest.

What you need to do now is to establish an external trust from
school.org to lab.school.org. Its better for your to learn more about which
direction you should create. If you have access to a book, get MS Press
(Active Directory for Windows Server 2003 - Technical Reference) and find
out more about trust. Your job here is to establish trust between the 2
domains in a SINGLE direction. Naturally the direction is for teachers in
school.org to enter lab.school.org and not the other way round.

If you don't have the book, doesn't matter. I believe think link will get
you all you need to know about the external trusts. :-) Have fun and let us
know if you're successful in your setup.
http://technet2.microsoft.com/WindowsServer/en/Library/261d6ecf-b4bc-4188-8805-d31fb49954d81033.mspx?mfr=true


--
Best Regards,
Dennis Chung

MCP, MCSA (2k3/Security), MCSE (2000/2003)
MCDBA, MCTS (SQL 2005), MCITP (SQL 2005 - DBA)
Microsoft Certified Trainer, Microsoft MVP - Windows

Microsoft Windows & SQL Server Advisory Panel Member
MS IT Academy - Mentor (APAC)
MS Vista & Office12 Influencer Lead (APAC)
Founder: Singapore Windows User Group (http://sgWindowsGroup.org)

"Purtech" <mikek(remove)@hlit.net> wrote in message
news:uaKysjqpGHA.3936@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Wow.

Sounds like the outgoing external trust thing is the best way. (I googled
that term and found our discussion!)

How...do I set that up or please point me to a resource to help. I don't
want students or teachers from lab.school.org being able log on to admin
machines.

Gareth brought up a point...should just I just subnet the two domains, put
a router between them...then how do I configure and external trust? (Or
does a VLAN do something better.)

Or when you say external are you talking out on the Internet and back?

Thanks so much! This is really helping.

"Dennis Chung [MVP]" <dennis@xxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:e4BQP0ipGHA.3584@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Hi Purtech,

Dave has a point. Both designs will work for you.

What I don't understand is how a child domain works - particularly with
Authentication. Actually...now that I think about it... so
teacher@xxxxxxxxxx who is a admin/account operator of lab.school.org
does not have admin privileges in the school.org domain, right?

But administrator in the school.org domain does, have admin right to
lab.school.org, right?

Yes, adminstrator@xxxxxxxxxx has admin rights over lab.school.org because
the first administrator is also an enterprise admin. And enterprise admin
is the king.

Well, its going to take very long to tell you howa child domain works.
But we create child domain normally to seperate/setup security boundaries
in the domain. There are several concerns though and as usual, pros and
cons to every design. Yes, teacher@xxxxxxxxxx will be able to login to
lab.school.org and be able to control accounts related things. However,
because within the same forest, the domains trusts each other, anyone in
lab.school.org can logon to any workstation within the school.org forest
provided they have rights which by default yes.

Another way of doing this is what Dave suggested, which tend to be better
in terms of security if you are talking about setting up school.org and
perhaps maybe lab.org. In this case, it gets a little more complicated
because each one holds 1 forest 1 domain. No trust relationship exists.
Having said that, teacher@xxxxxxxxxx has no control over lab.org. You
need to establish an external trust from school.org to lab.org (outgoing
external trust-single direction). This means teacher@xxxxxxxxxx can go to
lab.org, but students within lab.org cannot go to school.org because
there no trust established in that direction.

After this, you add teacher@xxxxxxxxxx to lab.org and make teache the
account operator or lab.org. There.. you're done...
Alternatively, don't do trust. Get your teachers to remember two ids and
passwords. 1 for each domain. ;-)


Dave - in the other post - said he would just create to separate
domains. school.org and school2.org I suppose. Is this more secure?


To help Dave answer, yes it is.


--
Best Regards,
Dennis Chung

MCP, MCSA (2k3/Security), MCSE (2000/2003)
MCDBA, MCTS (SQL 2005), MCITP (SQL 2005 - DBA)
Microsoft Certified Trainer, Microsoft MVP - Windows

Microsoft Windows & SQL Server Advisory Panel Member
MS IT Academy - Mentor (APAC)
MS Vista & Office12 Influencer Lead (APAC)
Founder: Singapore Windows User Group (http://sgWindowsGroup.org)

"Purtech" <mikek(remove)@hlit.net> wrote in message
news:ecBoaobpGHA.2400@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Excellent Dennis.

What I don't understand is how a child domain works - particularly with
Authentication. Actually...now that I think about it... so
teacher@xxxxxxxxxx who is a admin/account operator of lab.school.org
does not have admin privileges in the school.org domain, right?

But administrator in the school.org domain does, have admin right to
lab.school.org, right?

Also:

There are about 20 computers in the lab and about 10-15 in admin. I have
two switches. Would two separate VLAN's or two subnets be appropriate. I
don't think broadcast traffic is a big issue with this setup and these
switches.

Dave - in the other post - said he would just create to separate
domains. school.org and school2.org I suppose. Is this more secure?

Thanks!

"Dennis Chung [MVP]" <dennis@xxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:eK9HVZVpGHA.2256@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
There are several scenarios you can create from there.
Assuming these followings;
Teacher has an account in school.org. But here, the teacher is a normal
user. Limited rights, just normal user. This can also be
administration.

After that domain is up and the teacher has a normal account, say
teacher@xxxxxxxxxxx
You go on to build another child domain, lab.school.org
Put the teacher@xxxxxxxxxx as a domain admin / account operator in
lab.school.org.

Of course domain design wise will be like that.

But observing that you mention the new server will be school.org, and
your old server be lab.school.org. You have a few stage here to deal
with.

Stage 1. Assuming your current old server is housing school.org. You
need to put your new server as school.org. You need to make the new
server a dc. Before you can add a w2k3 dc into a w2k domain, you need
to perform adprep. Go to support.microsoft.com and search for the
adprep command to extend the schema. Then you dcpromo to make the w2k3
box a DC. Subsequent, leave it for about 30 mins.

Stage 2. You need to remove the old server and make it the DC for
lab.school.org. DCpromo your old server to remove it as a domain
controller. Remember to deal with your DNS/DHCP to reflect the new DC
else your clients will not be able to find the w2k3 DC. After dcpromo,
it'll be a normal member server of the domain.

Stage 3. Now you can put your old server as the dc for lab.school.org
as a DC by doing dcpromo.

Stage 4. In lab.school.org, you specify that TEacher@xxxxxxxxxx is a
member of lab.school.org\domain admin or account operators group.

Then i guess you're more or less done. :-)

--
Best Regards,
Dennis Chung

MCP, MCSA (2k3/Security), MCSE (2000/2003)
MCDBA, MCTS (SQL 2005), MCITP (SQL 2005 - DBA)
Microsoft Certified Trainer, Microsoft MVP - Windows

Microsoft Windows & SQL Server Advisory Panel Member
MS IT Academy - Mentor (APAC)
MS Vista & Office12 Influencer Lead (APAC)
Founder: Singapore Windows User Group (http://sgWindowsGroup.org)

"Purtech" <mikek(remove)@hlit.net> wrote in message
news:%23avhV%23RpGHA.1440@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
A school currently has one 2000 server. Single domain. Lets says
school.org.

They want to add a second server and upgrade both to Windows 2003
Standard.

They want the newer second server to be in administration, and the
older server to be in a computer lab.

They want administration and lab to have separate log in controls. The
teacher in charge of the lab server can add and removed student log
ins. However, he will have limited access to the administration
server.

First: should I create two separate domains? administration.school.org
and lab.school.org. Or just create a lab.school.org under school.org?

They will not grow past this for years.

Thanks for you help.












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