Re: SBS 2008 as host for terminal server on 2008?

Gregg Hill wrote:
SG,

I am not arguing about anything. I am just pointing that I don't
understand how **SBS** could be considered unsupported if it is NOT
being virtualized, but is merely running a virtualized TS on it.

Let's say I have MS Virtual Server running on a normally-installed
non-virtualized with SBS as the host. MS says it is unsupported. Now,
I turn off the Virtual Server so that my virtualized TS is off. Is
SBS now supported, because it is no longer acting as the host for the
other system? At that point, ten seconds after killing VS, the SBS is
now nothing more than it was when it was installed directly on
hardware as in the past. The virtualized TS is basically just an
application running on SBS. Why would that be any different than if I
ran an LOB on the SBS?
In other words, how can the mere addition of Virtual Server running
on an SBS 2008 **non-virtualized** host cause the host to be
unsupported?
Gregg Hill

Correct. While the whole OS isn't virtualized, the network connection for
the parent *is* virutlaized (as soon as the Hyper-V role is added).

That is the issue.




"SuperGumby [SBS MVP]" <not@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:u8v24wGVJHA.1188@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
with TS running in a VM under SBS neither the SBS nor the TS would
be in a 'supported config'.

I'm sorry to 'harp on' about this but I prefer all my essential
servers to be in a 'supported configuration'.

Something I didn't put into my other reply is that when you really
get down to 'nuts and bolts' and available supported scenarios we
need to consider the 'supported virtualisation scenarios'. Though MS
do not yet proclaim support for 'SBS under any virtual environment'
there is fundamentally very little difference between the MS
hypervisor and any other similar product, the DOJ may force MS to
adopt such 'across the board' compliance.

But when you come down to brass tacks it doesn't really matter so
much about such compliance, MS recognise the wish for us to do so
and have provided a FREE mechanism for it, Windows Hyper-V Server.
As WHVS is no more than a limited windows installation capable of
supporting virtualisation and SBS is 'supported', as a guest, in
such environment there really is no need to complain, no need for
the DOJ to be upset. If you have SBS08 Standard and wish to improve your
hardware
utilisation you can download a free program that puts a virtualised
SBS in a fully supported environment.
If you have SBS08 Premium you can use the 2nd server license as both
parent partition for Hyper-V (subject to '1+1' right limitations)
and run both SBS and a full implementation of the 2nd server.

I don't see why you guys are feeling the need to argue about it :-)

"Gregg Hill" <greggmhill at please do not spam me at yahoo dot com>
wrote in message news:%234h0$FDVJHA.4280@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Hello!

Well, with SBS as the host, it would really mean that the TS
running in VM on the SBS would not be supported. SBS itself should
still be in a supported config, because it would be running on
hardware directly. That is fine with me...after all, it's just a TS
for my own two-person company.

I will look into the other options.

Thank you to all who responded!

Gregg Hill





"Cris Hanna [SBS MVP]" <crisnospamhanna@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote in message news:%23AH8gd8UJHA.5860@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
No suggesting that it can't or won't, only want to make sure that
anyone who might stumble accross this thread doesn't pursue this
option without understanding that they would leave themselves in
an unsupported config. --
Cris Hanna [SBS - MVP]
Co-Author, Windows Small Business Server 2008 Unleashed
http://www.amazon.com/Windows-Small-Business-Server-Unleashed/dp/0672329573/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1217269967&sr=8-1
------------------------------------
MVPs do not work for Microsoft
Please do not submit questions directly to me.

"Edwin Garst" <egarst@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:uEU5KI8UJHA.4508@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Chris,
I understand that it's not supported. And SBS2003 running as a
VM on WHS is not supported either. It ran without incident for
over a year while I was testing 2008. And WHS was backing up
SBS2003 every day! Edwin Garst

"Cris Hanna [SBS MVP]" <crisnospamhanna@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote in message news:ukAtG67UJHA.1164@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
The one important thing to keep in mind is that SBS2008 as the
host is NOT a supported configuration, whether using Virtual
Server, HyperV or VMWare

--
Cris Hanna [SBS - MVP]
Co-Author, Windows Small Business Server 2008 Unleashed
http://www.amazon.com/Windows-Small-Business-Server-Unleashed/dp/0672329573/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1217269967&sr=8-1
------------------------------------
MVPs do not work for Microsoft
Please do not submit questions directly to me.

"Edwin Garst" <egarst@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:ubQaw27UJHA.5408@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Gregg,
I have the same setup as you for a home office. I am running
SBS2008 with 8GB of memory. VS2005 R2 Sp1 runs fine on top of SBS.
KB948515 is installed. Refer to
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=A79BCF9B-59F7-480B-A4B8-FB56F42E3348&displaylang=en
. There are some error messages posted at startup regarding
access to AD by the Network Service account. SBS performs very
well. The most memory I have seen used so far is about 5.5GB.

I have a second server loaded with Windows Home Server. This
machines performs backups on the client machines. It is also
the file server and the print server. It has 4GB and also runs
VS2005. The WHS was previously running my SBS2003 production VM
before I
migrated to RTM SBS2008. I did the migrate manually by saving
the mailboxes to .pst and performing a clean install of SBS.

Instead of running a Terminal Server I just run a copy of XP
Sp3 and Vista Business. I have allocaed 512MB to XP and 1.5GB to
Vista.
Performance of both is very good. The advantage of this setup
is that you can run Office from the Action Pack on the virtual
machines. To avoid backup issues I have created a separate partition
to
store the VMs. This partition is not included in the normal SBS
backups. I handle the VM backup manually by shutting down the VM
and doing
a manual copy to removable storage.

There is enough processor and memory capacity left to run a
Windows 2003 server or Windows 2008 server. Just remember that
you can only run 32 bit software from VS2005. So the server memory
in each
VM is limited to 4GB.

My host machine is home made. It has an AMD 4600+ X2 processor
which has an internal ID of Opteron 8220. The motherboard is an
ASUS
M2NPV-VM. Memory is Kingston Valueram 4GB running at 667 MHz. The
disk raid controller is a RocketRAID 2300 PCIx card. I have
two WD 250GB SATA drives in the array.

By the way, this setup is perfectly capable of running HyperV. But
there is a shutdown issue that prevents a reboot of the host
machine. So I opted to go the VS2005 route for now. If I had a
machine
with more memory then the HyperV setup would work better because of
the 64bit guests.

Please let me know if you have any other questions.

Edwin Garst
Epcon Systems
847 394-4397

"Gregg Hill" <greggmhill at please do not spam me at yahoo dot
com> wrote in message
news:%23SaAljyUJHA.4452@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Hello!

I know that Virtual Server has a x64 version and the MS
documentation states it will run on SBS 2003, but I have not
found anything saying if it will run on any version of a 2008
server.
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/virtualserver/evaluation/sysreqs.mspx
No mention of 2008.

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;840319
Also no mention of 2008.

My goal for my home office is to have my Action Pack SBS 2008
(early next year when I get a new server) run a terminal
server 2008 for remote access to applications. My wife and I
would be the only ones accessing it, and IE would be disabled,
so no surfing ever from the TS.

Do any of you with SBS 2008 experience know if I can run a
virtual TS with SBS 2008 as the host OS?

Thank you for your time!

Gregg Hill

--
/kj


.

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