Re: Upgrading from SBS 2003 SP1 to R2, Backup Exec 11d or System Center Data Protection Manager 2007?

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I'm actually doing a lot of reading right now, there's so much I don't know about Storage.
I'm jumping from one article to another and I can see already that SCDPM does not run
on SBS simply because I couldn't find SBS on the list of OSes it runs on and another
place I read that it would not work on a server that has active directory on it. In other
words - so far in me preliminary conclusion

So, it's still too early for me to conclude anything, I will continue reading about
SCDPM and I also got interested about Windows Storage Server and I want
to find out more about this, why MS has a server software for Storage exactly.
Much reading ahead of me and a lot of research.

The reasons for many different flavors of SQL, the SQL Server Express Edition
does some data processing that the client does want to do it on the main SQL
production server, for various reasons. The other SQLs would mainly be for
fault-tolerance. Clustering is not in the plans right now.


"Cris Hanna [SBS-MVP]" <crisnospamhanna@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:uhnDb%23LHIHA.700@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I'm not sure I've been much help with this.
The purpose of this community for the most part is peer-to-peer assistance with particular error messages, functionality failures etc.
However we also see people asking for opinions on particular third party products or technologies and many will be willing to share their opinions
But this is not a great avenue for getting specific consulting advise on a wide range of issues in a complex project.

You may see a better response to your questions if you:
1) break them into separate posts based on the nature of the question
2) Do your research, narrow it down to 1 or 2 products and then ask the group for specific opinions on product X versus product Y.

I'd be curious to know why you're looking at running so many instances of SQL Server and in different flavors? Why not just one SQL server with lots of databases. If its a memory issue concern, put it on SQL enterprise and throw lots of RAM at it rather than 3-4 separate server boxes.


--
Cris Hanna [SBS-MVP]
-------------------------------------------------
Microsoft MVPs
Independent Experts (MVPs do not work for MS)
Real World Answers
---------------------------------------------------------
Please do not contact me directly regarding issues

"serge" <sergea@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:51C7F2EE-1CC4-4979-826C-7FDA3759038E@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cris, I do appreciate very much you taking the time to explain in detail in your reply.

I've been using SBS since 1999 starting with SBS 4.5, the last few years I've been away from SBS and mainly working
with SQL. I was not actively involved with SBS 2003 but I did try to work with it from time to time whenever I could.
It actually took me days to go and read all kinds of articles, documentation to prepare my R2 plan. Since it's been a
while, it's taking me time to catch up with SBS again.

Well, I can get into more detail, I guess I should have been more specific about the role of the many servers.

In the data center they have the SBS which acts mainly as their DC and Exchange server. All users in the remote
offices connect to SBS. To answer your other question why move to R2? We're moving to R2 in order to setup SQL
2005 Workgroup. This way we'll set up Log Shipping with the other SQL 2005 Std edition server. This is basically to
act as a temporary backup of the SQL db in case of emergency. Log shipping is automatic backup so why not set
it up if SBS machine now has SQL 2005 Workgroup edition.

There is another server which has SQL Express Edition that does some data processing.

There are 2 IIS servers in the data center in their own DMZ outside of the SBS domain. They are the company's
website that are both load balanced IIS servers.

Another server could be setup for SQL 2005 setup for database mirroring and as I believe we wouldn't need to buy a
SQL license for that.

In reality there's the SBS server to backup which Veritas does it, we can buy an SQL Agent license to backup the main
SQL Server or we can always backup the new R2's SQL 2005 db since it will be pretty much synched with the main SQL
Server.

So as you can see the multitude of servers do not constitute servers that are critical to be backed up for data protection.
The main challenge is to figure out how to back them up completely for DR preparation purposes.

In a sense I tried to answer above to your replies to points #1 and #2. We don't need enterpirse level of backup for backup.
The main data is being backed up fine. The inexperience of my part is when it comes to DR. This is where I need to
figure out if I would have to choose Veritas or SCDPM. Maybe we'll end up using SCDPM for its backup capabilities,
and specifically I'm personnally looking forward to try the advanced restore options. I don't believe Veritas offers same type
of restore capabilities. And maybe we'll have to use Veritas' other Recovery Option software to backup the servers for DR
preparation. That's what I don't know yet. I'm trying to find out here in the SBS community what applications are used
for DR preparation. Putting all these together will add up for the cost of licenses, if each server to be backed up will require a
separate Recovery Option then I don't think there's a budget for that.

Maybe other DR softwares out there would be the solution. I don't know, I'm hoping to find out from others what they
recommend.

Now for point #3, no there is no plans to consolidate servers and reduce # of servers. The main reason for virtualization is to
for example make an image of the SBS server and apply things like R2, SBS 2003 SP2 (whenever it comes out) on the
virtual server first. That's the main requirement. At the same time if virtualization now does offer DR then that's what I am
trying to find out too. Yesterday I read about "hypervisor" for the first time and here's one more new thing I have to catch
up in the server world :)

At the moment, I can skip #3 and concentrate #1 and #2. I just need to figure out what is out there for DR options.

I'll take a look at the AD users for the licensing question I had.
Yes there are permanent VPN connections connecting the subnets.

Plus, another area I need to figure out after, is what backup storage to use. I am guessing whatever software we would
choose, they would work with whatever hardware we choose: SAN, NAS, tape backup, etc...


Thanks for your help.


"Cris Hanna [SBS-MVP]" <crisnospamhanna@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:E197C087-6F7B-4E41-A22A-8EE3F94DB354@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Serge,
I'm not trying to be rude or insensitive, but if you are the IT consultant for this customer, you seem to be very unfamiliar with Small Business Server as well as other products in the Small Business arena.

I'm going to provide some basic answers in line to your questions but these seem like rather odd questions for someone who is in the business of IT Consulting and who should be familiar with Small Business Server if you are going to take on customers who have this product.

See below

Regarding their 3 areas of concern
1. Backup - Given the number of servers you are talking about, you need a very sophisticated back up strategy. its not just about backing up SBS. Thats simple, you use the SBS backup wizard and let it back up the whole server every night to USB drives. But it can't backup your other servers. You may very well need Symantec's Enterprise Product with Active agents for SQL, etc. And you'll need large capacity separate storage for those back ups..possibly a separate SANs device or tape changer capability.

2. DR - Backup is a big part of DR. The two go hand in hand. Deciding how to approach their DR requirements depends on how long they can afford to be down, how readily replacement hardware can be made available, are all things that will affect the plan and approach. Server imaging might be one approach using products which can restore either to "real" hardware or to Virtual Servers.

3. Virtual Servers - Whether you use Microsofts products or VMWare, you need to decide what goal of virtualization is? Simply trying to reduce the actual # of servers and keep costs down? Having 1 or 2 very beefy VM servers each handling 2-3 guests can be much cheaper than 6 individual servers. Having VMServers as a DR option works too. Or you can do both.

I strongly suggest you consider partnering with another consultant who has more experience in a complex project like this. You will learn a lot in the process and you will look good to your customer because they will have the solution they are looking for.

--
Cris Hanna [SBS-MVP]
---------------------------
MVPs do not work for MS.
Please do not contact me directly regarding issues.


"serge" <sergea@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:10AC7E1A-BD38-40A1-B82A-5CDC6DB02A04@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Hello,

I have a number of questions while I prepare to setup R2.

1- In Server Management, Licensing I see:
Installed licenses: 5
Maximum usage: 10

Where do I find all the information on Licensing? Is there
something I am missing, I want to find out what are the 10
usages: servers, users? The subform is empty in License
Codes, Number of Licenses and Activation Date.
SBS comes with 5 built in client access licenses. Many third party programs wind up creating "accounts" when they are installed.
You should be able to look in AD Users and Computers and get a sense if some of the 3rd party programs they have are using up licenses, but the fact is that they need additional licenses
Licensing for SBS is all covered right here http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/sbs/howtobuy/licensing.mspx


2- Currently the SBS has Veritas Backup Exec 10d installed.
The backup is being done to a USB driver. I am currently
doing research both on hardware and software.

Let's start with the network environment first.
The client have their main servers in a data center. They have
one SBS 2003 SP1 (the plan is to move it to R2), 1 separate
SQL 2005 Std Edition and there are 4-5 other servers which
are IIS servers, another SQL Server and some other servers.

This seems like an awful lot of servers for a relatively few workstations. You mention IIS servers. Hopefully they are not hosting their public website inside their SBS domain.!! And what do you hope to gain by upgrading their SBS server to R2?

Then the client has a dozen other computers (some servers,
MS virtual servers and the rest are workstations XP and Vista)
in other remote locations.

The network is properly setup, all 5-6 subnets are connected
properly and all seems to be functionning well through the
Internet and VPN connections.

I can't imagine why in the world there would be 5-6 subnets unless you are talking persistent VPNs between that many remote offices

The client is interested in 3 areas:
1- Backup
2- Disaster Recovery
3- Being able to create virtual servers (using VMWare or
MS Virtual Server) to copy production servers in order
to be able to use those newly created virtual servers for
testing purposes.

I've been reading the datasheet on Veritas and it seems to have
a simple Disaster Recovery option. I called and asked what is
the difference between the DR option that comes with the SBS
version of Backup Exec vs the separate Veritas Disaster Recovery
Option application, they said the simple DR takes hours to restore
whereas the other product takes minuets. The simple product
backs up to tape-based whereas the SRO one backs up to disk.
I have read also that Veritas (not sure if the main product or only
the SRO) can backup/create VMware or Virtual Server images.


http://eval.symantec.com/mktginfo/enterprise/fact_sheets/ent-datasheet_bewsbs_11d_03-2007.en-us.pdf



What I've read so far about SCDPM, especially for SQL

backups is that it gives much more options when it comes

to restoring mainly. I can see a lot of options that I don't

believe Veritas offer.





What are you using? Do people like SCDPM? Is there a

document or an article where someone has written their

differences, the pros and cons of each, why choose one

over the other?



And for DR, what do people use to prepare and backup

their servers so in case of disaster, things are setup

for easy recovery? I looked at VMWare demo online

which is selling the notion that disaster recovery with

VMWare is much easier and quicker than other traditional

methods. However, I might be wrong, I would have to read more,

but with their solution, I am supposed to convert my physical

OSes into Virtual Servers then these virtual servers are setup

to be copied as DR images? Anyone knows?



http://www.vmware.com/solutions/continuity/disasterrecovery.html#



What are my options for DR? When i have remote offices, no

hardware yet, and the client is asking if there are affordable solutions

consisting of software and hardware for the three requirements.



I appreciate your feedback.



Thank you


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