Re: Tape vs HDD vs NAS (speed considerations and size etc)..


Leythos wrote:
In article <1168286949.135517.121640@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
markm75c@xxxxxxx says...

Leythos wrote:
In article <1168280395.733848.241080@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
markm75c@xxxxxxx says...

Leythos wrote:
In article <1168277786.821425.191360@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
markm75c@xxxxxxx says...
I guess another approach (if faster).. would be a sata or scsi array
for the backups.. then backup the array to a tape library (assuming the
array would be faster than the tape). Of course the cost goes up a bit
more, but it provides more of a double assurance factor (even though,
technically we already have single drive internal backup units, but
these are beginning to run low on space at the end of 1 month, our full
backup cycle period).

Yep, that's how we do it in large areas. We install a couple cheap
servers with large multi-TB arrays (normally using cheap drives in a 8
or 12 drive solution) and then install a dedicated SCSI tape backup. All
the servers backup to dedicated spaces on the backup server and then the
server does a backup to tape - we copy to tape based on area/need, not
doing it all on one tape. So we might backup servers from two areas on
one day on Monday, then another set on Tuesdays, and then back to the
first set....

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Cool.. so I'm a little closer to designing the plan we will need then.

Curious.. how are the disk arrays installed.. is this typically a rack
situation.. say 2U etc..

Same thing with the tape drives on the installation part.. I'm assuming
rack.. though I thought I've seen standalone "tower" type setups
before.

I ask those 2, as we have yet to get a large enough rack to handle
this, plus the large UPS we are going to be getting (APC unit, which
handles like 4000 watts of load or so).

We typically buy a single Xeon server, with a 8 or 12 port 3Ware
controller, or in another instance we bought a SX6000 controller for an
older IDE based system (250GB x 6 hot swap). We build this in a Chenbro
server case (dual sided) that can handle that number of drives.


There are rack mounted solutions for this I would assume, as well.. I'm
guessing the double sided server route would be cheaper (probably good
for my situation)..

One of my IBM servers can handle 12 drives I think, if I remember it's a
3800 series, could be wrong.

Also.. on the connectivity side.. the harddrive arrays.. I'm assuming
these would use fiber or maybe an eSATA connection to one single server
(though if connected to one server via sata or even SCSI, I'd think I
would want something faster than gigabit for network connectivity if
I'm going to send large backups to the unit from say 2 large data sized
servers)?

Nope, they are all inside the one dual sided server.

Finally, similar question on the tape units.. are all of these scsi
connected.. and would that imply "picking" a server to connect them
to.. or is fiber the method used to connect to the backup harddisk
array (or even scsi/esata)?

We install a GB trunked network, where all servers have Dual GB NICS to
a managed switch, which allows trunking, then we backup across the
network to the main backup server. The Tape drive sits inside the backup
server.


I haven't dealt with trunking thus far.. is this where you combine the
two lines into one.. giving say 2gb performance for network throughput?

Not really 2GB, it's more like 2 x 1GB, so that you have two paths that
can be used at the same time, not one path of 2GB.

You said the tape drive sits on the backup server.. by backup server
did you mean the server that "runs" the backup with backup exec.. or
the dual sided server.. so the tape drive is sitting inside the dual
sided server? By sitting inside, if this is the case.. I guess you
avoid having to have the high speed pathway from the dual sided server
to a tape server...

Also.. is this dual sided server a full blown server.. ie: with an OS
on it etc.. or does it just house the drives (I'm guessing you have an
OS).

The backup server is a full blown Windows 2003 server that has the TB
arrays, tape drive, and BE

The remote servers have BE Adapters/Connectors or they start their own
local backup and place the backup data on the "main backup server" by
means of a share.

You said the server does the backup to the tape.. is this the harddisk
array you are referring to (IE: one server.. handpicked to do the
job.. backs up the harddisk array to tape..).. and can you selectively
pick which tapes in the library get which "backups" or "backup data"?
I'm also assuming that for both the backup to the Harddisk array and/or
the backup of the array to tape, you are using something like
BackupExec or even Windows Backup?

Backup Exec in most places, NTBackup in some. I didn't mean that we
select a tape, we have single tape units and backup each day to what the
tape can handle with a little spare room. So, on Monday, the tape will
backup the folders for Server 1,2,3, on Tuesday it will backup the
server folders for 4,5,1, on Wednesday it will backup folders 1,2,3....

The servers backup every night to the main backup server.


So you aren't doing incrementals on all servers each night.. just on
certain nights?

We never do incrementals, we do full backups only. Some servers,
depending on the need, are backed up each night, others every other
night... On systems that can afford the time/space, we backup every
night ot more.

I was also thinking, that for our situation.. since we may have close
to 1 TB of a full backup across all servers.. we'd do our full backups
in stages, rather than on one given day from all 4 servers at the same
time.. we generally run a full backup 1x a month (but each server
currently has its own external backup harddrive, so this isnt so bad
(takes about 10 hours or more for 300gb)).. I was guestimating that if
we did full backup of server1 on Day1 of each month, then server2 on
day2, etc.. this would make it possible to use 1 or 2 tapes for an
entire "full" backup.. while still doing incrementals on each server
every single night.

Otherwise, for us, it would take 25+ hours to do all 4 servers at once
to the tape unit (at one time)...

I can see where dividing things up would come in handy like you have
shown :)

We have one client with a half-T1 between offices, we backup between
offices, each with their own 1.5TB server, over days, doing several
areas per night/day.

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Cool.. I think I see how you are doing this.. I guess we'll have to
evaluate whether to do the full blown backup server route or just use a
rack etc.

One question again if you dont mind.. you said you are using a tape
drive inside the backup server.. I guess you are only doing a single
drive tape drive (not a tape library)? I would think the tape
libraries may not fit inside a server ? I've been checking out
pricing.. it appears round $4k gets you an 8 slot library (DLT-S4).

.

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