Re: EMERGENCY! Offline Files Disappearing / Vanishing

Dave - you might be onto something here:

On consideration, I agree with you: It is complete overkill to reinstall the
server, and there is no guarantee of a fix. What if there were fifty users?
So, obviously the problem must be diagnosed/discovered, or else I have to go
another path, such as Second Copy. Sounds like that might be the way to go.

As I intimated, you've switched on a bit of a "lightbulb" though:

The one common event is THIS LAPTOP. The user previously had a different
laptop, and he did not have this problem. When the video card went out on his
old laptop (an Inspiron 8500), we gave him a the "standby" laptop - this one
- a D600 Latitude.

A week or so after he got the D600, this problem happened. When it happened
the second time, that was when I re-imaged the D600 and the problem "seemed"
to go away - I thought the re-image (and the other steps outlined in my post)
did the trick. About a week after that, the Inspiron 8500 was repaired, and
we gave it back to him, and the D600 then went "on ice" for a while...

He had no problems on his Inspiron 8500...until the LCD screen went out!
That was when I switched him back to the D600 again (what he is using now).
He was on the D600 for about a month, when the problem came back.

So, maybe it's something to do with the D600? A NIC issue? I don't know?
Sounds like we might be onto something though...

Incidentally, there is another post in the forum, "My Documents Redirection"
(8/17/06 also). I have added a question to that, as a poster (Owen) suggested
the possiblilty that the Folder Redirection policy of "Subfolders always
available offline" be enabled on the server. It is not enabled is SBS by
default. See below:

I wrote in another forum: "Owen - As you stated, the "Subfolders always
available offline" policy is DISABLED on SBS by default. That is correct.
However, I have never enabled this policy for any of my clients - yet their
subfolders ARE always available offline. What is the purpose of this policy
then? Is it a way of forcing the
issue, and kind of "making sure"? I'm wondering if it could have anything to
do with the problem I'm having?"


"Dave Nickason [SBS MVP]" wrote:

Probably a poor choice of words on my part - when I referred to
"administratively cached" I meant those that were set for caching in the
properties of the share on the server, as opposed to those set for caching
manually by the user. IOW I was trying to say the same thing the KB says.

FWIW, I would not even consider an undertaking like reinstalling a server as
an attempt to resolve an undiagnosed problem. I don't agree that you know
that a reinstall will fix it - I had an instance where we had an undiagnosed
problem that was so bad we considered replacing the server. Turned out to
be a really obscure issue with a 3rd party driver that would have been
reinstalled on the new box.

I've used both Second Copy and SyncToy. IMO Second Copy is a lot more
elegant a solution for this, especially the newest version. It's only
something like $30 and it's much easier to automate and much more
configurable than SyncToy.

I'm not clear on how the permissions could be to blame for this - aren't you
saying the files disappear from the CSC but not the server? You should be
able to rule out permissions just by looking in Advanced to make sure
nothing strange got left behind.

Have you seen this KB?

How to re-initialize the offline files cache and database
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/230738/en-us


"Macker" <Macker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:7CD5DDE4-5766-4609-B03F-296481E37861@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I greatly appreciate everyone's input here, but I'm afraid I am no closer
to
solving this

(maddening) mystery.

Looking at each contributor's advice, one by one:

Dave Nickason:
-------------

Dave - one thing you said in your first paragraph:

"XP will limit the number of files to the size specified in Windows
Explorer
Tools ->
Folder Options -> Offline Files."

I believe this is untrue. This refers to 'temporary' caching, and not to
files manually or administratively cached. See:
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=904676

Also, when (My Documents) folder redirection is administratively set in
SBS
2003, it WILL make all sub-folders available offline.

On user error: I have considered this, but I have ruled it out. The user
has
an excellent understanding of Offline Files, and is ultra-careful and well
instructed! He is certainly not deleting all his folders. Additionally, I
have enabled the Group Policy "Remove 'Make Available Offline' " so he is
unable to pick and choose what to synchronize - everything in My Docs is
set
to be available offline, and he cannot change that.

Quotas, free space, disk errors - all ruled out.

The one thing I haven't been able to look at this time (because he is
away)
are the client event logs...something may lie there. I'm really UN-hopeful
at
this stage though.

Lanwench:
--------

You helped me before with something - thanks. Point taken on Offline
Files.
I'm starting to feel the same way.

My client *seems* to be taking this okay. However, he wants to "talk about
it" when he gets back. He will want answers though, and will want to be
CERTAIN that this never happens again. At this stage, short of hosing the
entire server and every machine - literally building the domain from
scratch
- which I may do - I can't think of a way around this one, and nobody
seems
to have an answer.

I think I will take your advice and give SecondCopy a second look. Also,
I'm
thinking about SyncToy in the XP PowerToys kit. There is a guy from
Microsoft
- Jonathan Hardwick - who has a blog dedicated to Offline Files
(http://blogs.msdn.com/jonathanh/archive/category/6957.aspx), and I got
the
recommendation from there.

kj:
--

There are no related entries in the server event log, because he is never
connected to the server when this happens! This always occurs when he is
away
from the office, and not connected to the server. As I noted above though,
I
have not yet seen the event logs on the laptop itself.

Ethan:
-----

We can rule out Window Washer. There are no other unusual third-party apps
on the machine, just the standard faire of Office 2003, Acrobat Reader,
etc.
Thanks for your suggestion though - you never know with these things -
anything is possible!

So What Now?
-----------

Well, that's where I'm at. Perhaps the event logs on the laptop itself
will
shed some light. Perhaps not.

As I mentioned in my first post, the one thing at the "back of my mind"
that
I have doubts about, is the fact that "Mary" at one point had access to
his
User share on the server. This access has since been removed and
permissions
replaced back to normal, and also all the machines have been re-imaged.
However, knowing how finicky Windows Permissions can be sometimes, I'm
wondering if *something* is holding over somehow? I really don't think so
though...everything looks exactly as it should.

I'm now grasping at straws, and wondering if it's a particular file?
Something corrupted somewhere? I'm really at my wits end.

The one thing I pretty much know will fix it, will be a total reinstall of
the server from scratch (along with all the workstations). That is a
monumental task, and a pretty brute-force "fix" even for a small office
such
as this. I may be left with no choice though...


"Macker" wrote:

I never believed the Offline Files horror stories I would read on forums
from
other system admins - until now. (Apologies for not taking "you"
seriously).
I may have lost a client today...

(Please excuse the length of this post, but I want to try and give as
much
information as possible)

Here is the infrastructure/scenario:

- SBS 2003
- My Documents Redirection enabled
- My Documents made "Available Offline"
- Size Limit on server set to 5GB (rather than default 1GB limit)
- Client laptop: Dell Latitude, XP Pro SP2

Here is a basic overview of what is happening:

- STARTING POINT (before any problems):
- The client's My Documents are fully synched and available offline - no
problems.
- The client has no problems for two years - his My Documents are always
available offline.
- Everyone is happy.
- The size of his "My Documents" before the problems started, is about
4.2GB

- PROBLEMS:
- One evening (6 months ago) I get a call: The client is offline, and the
most of the contents of his My Documents are GONE.
- I say "most", because about ten files (out of 2,000+) are available.
They
are the files he most recently worked on. They are available at the end
of
the tree, eg:

My Documents\School Files\School 2005\Science Class\ScienceProject1.doc

AND

My Documents\School Files\School 2006\Civics Class\CivicsProject1.doc

However, in the "Science Class" or "Civics Class" folders, there should
be
hundreds of files, not just the ScienceProject1.doc and
CivicsProject1.doc
files. Additionally, there should be (lots of) files in the folders above
these. eg: the "School 2006" folder should also have hundreds of files in
it,
as well as other folders. They are all missing.

ATTEMPTED FIXES:

FIRST TIME:

The first time this happened (at 11PM at night, when he had a flight at
6AM):

- I drove to his house, picked up his laptop, and drove to his office
where
the server lives.
- I first of all looked on the server, and sure enough his "missing"
files
were all there under his appropriate user folder on the server.
- Next, I hooked up the laptop, and logged onto the network as the user.
- I DID NOT SYNCHRONIZE (YET)
- I opened up his My Documents, and sure enough, there were his files -
all
WITHOUT the blue synchronization arrows next to them. The only ones that
DID
have the arrows, were the ones mentioned above (ScienceProject1.doc,
CivicsProject1.doc, etc.)
- I then performed a full synchronization. This took about three hours,
over
a 100mbps network. It appeared to have to rebuilt the offline cache from
scratch.
- Once the synchronization was complete, I did another synchronization
"just
to be sure." This time it ran like a normal sync, and took about a
minute.
- I then powered down the laptop, disconnected the network cable, and
rebooted in offline mode. All the files were now there - everything
seemed
fine.
- I returned the laptop to the client (at about 4AM).

SECOND TIME:

My client worked away merrily for about a week, then disaster struck
again:
Exact same symptoms - only about the most recent 7 to 10 files he had
been
working on, were available. Again, the tree structure above the 7 to 10
files
was intact, but there was nothing else in the folders.

This time (about 1PM in the afternoon), he was again about to leave for
the
weekend at 8PM.

- I rendevouzed with him at his office.
- I synched up the laptop as before.
- THEN -
- I COPIED the contents of his My Documents onto his Desktop.
- I DELETED the contents of his My Documents
- I did another sync (of his now empty My Documents)
- I deleted his Offline Cache (Folder Options, on the Offline Files tab,
press CTRL+SHIFT, and then click Delete Files).
- I did another sync.
- THEN -
- I COPIED the (previously copied) My Documents contents, from his
desktop,
back to his real My Documents.
- I performed another full sync.
- I then did another sync (just to be sure), and rebooted.
- Everything was still there. I synched again.
- I shut down, rebooted in offline mode.
- All the files were there. "This is fixed!" I thought.

THIRD TIME:

Everything was okay for about a month. Then lightning struck a third
time.
Again, the exact same problem - only a few files available.

This time I really went overboard: It is a small office - three users
only.
(I have a client with FIFTY users, and have never had these problems).

His assistant (let's call her "Mary") has a workstation. She sometimes
needs
access to his files, so sometimes she logs onto her workstation as him
(let's
call him "Joe"). There is also a laptop which Mary uses, and sometimes
she
logs on as Joe on the laptop too. I figured that perhaps there was some
conflict between the three machines. I therefore decided to re-image
(wipe)
ALL THE MACHINES and start afresh.

- I first of all made a systemwide backup.
- For added backup, I then burned several DVDs with each user's My
Documents
on them.
- I deleted the contents of the User's folders on the server.
- I re-imaged all the machines.
- I deleted the computer accounts of the old machines (using the proper
SBS
tools).
- I joined the "newly minted" computers to the domain (using the proper
SBS
.

Relevant Pages

  • RE: EMERGENCY! Offline Files Disappearing / Vanishing
    ... Folder Options -> Offline Files." ... when folder redirection is administratively set in SBS ... There are no related entries in the server event log, ... have not yet seen the event logs on the laptop itself. ...
    (microsoft.public.windows.server.sbs)
  • Re: EMERGENCY! Offline Files Disappearing / Vanishing
    ... Both as the admin and the user, Folder Redirection, Desktop sync, ... I don't use offline files, but I do redirect My Documents. ... stored on a server that will be critical if my network or server ... The one common event is THIS LAPTOP. ...
    (microsoft.public.windows.server.sbs)
  • Re: Redirection of Offline Sync Behavior
    ... That's normal for a domain server and why they're always going to/from the server. ... Could you have the 'normal path' to be their local PC and the SYNC path to point to the server. ... they could turn off their WAN / "work offline" all day - turn it on again. ... for unshared files could you use "My Briefcase" to have it sync to 'their mapped network folder' only at logon/off.? ...
    (microsoft.public.windowsxp.general)
  • Re: Offline file synchronization issue
    ... It would seem to me regardless of the server no longer existing he should be ... That's what "offline" is all about. ... files folder" on the laptop, but can't access them, for whatever reason. ...
    (microsoft.public.windows.server.general)
  • Re: Two Servers with Same Name & My Folder Redirection Challenge.
    ... We cannot force the target folder in the laptop to ... can change the server name. ... also displays at My Document's Properties -> Target tab on your laptop. ... This newsgroup only focuses on SBS technical issues. ...
    (microsoft.public.windows.server.sbs)
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