Re: backup solution for sbs?

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From: Jeff L (newsgroupsremoveandunderscore_jeff_at_availabletech.net)
Date: 07/27/04 

Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 18:25:39 -0400

Susan,

You have to admit he has a way of keeping threads going. This is not meant
to encourage him but I am always impressed by how motivated the other
posters get when root joins in. I am not sure that root is looking for
respect... maybe just looking to motivate... probably took too many Psych
courses or something. Anyway to the best of my knowledge his reverse
psychology is working because people really go to town on the replies.

The challenge for me and others is to take root with a grain of salt.
Besides every good community needs a villain.

Of course the only reason I am posting is so I can have the last word... ;*)

Cheers,

Jeff L

"Susan Bradley, CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP]" <sbradcpa@pacbell.net>
wrote in message news:#GB4QMBdEHA.4092@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> [top poster]
>
> Root, you have valid viewpoint.
> You have valid arguments.
> You are a smart person.
> But you totally lose your audience.
> You add a lot to this group but you'd add SOOOO much more if you'd just
> approach this with an attitude of "advice" and not one of "this is
snakeoil"
>
> I know you won't take my advice, but if you'd back off just one notch on
> your "my way is vastly superior" attitude you'd get a ton more respect
> out here. Put a bit of sugar with posting and try it.
>
> None of us are 100% right. None of us have to have the last word out
> here either.
>
> That's what's cool about SBS. We CAN do it many ways.
>
> As I've said earlier, I've had two usb enclosures die on me [one of them
> had all the ball bearings and all that]. When I care about the data on
> my system, I'm not willing to go with a solution that hasn't had the
> test of time when I've HAD tape drives and they have stood the test of
time.
>
> But if you want to do your method, that's fine. But don't insult your
> fellow SBSer and call it SnakeOil because they recommend a different
> way. What is your "been there done that solution" is not others.
>
> Best backup solution?
>
> Either ....
> One that never has to be used... or... One that has been tested.
>
> I'd still like to buy you a Mountain Dew in Seattle when I'm at
> smbnation. You've never responded back to that. ;-)
>
> The conversations in this thread were neither "A worthless preparation
> fraudulently peddled as a cure for many ills. or Speech or writing
> intended to deceive; humbug. "
>
> No SBSer would be deceived by running any of these solutions. Some cost
> more than others but they are all tested solutions.
>
> None of us reap any benefits from our recommendations.
>
> I'm not paid by Ultrabac, nor by Sony. We're just trying to help one
> another.
>
> I'm going ask everyone [myself included] to not jump on your threads adn
> just give you the space you need.
>
> We're out here to help, not to deceive. Just remember that Root.
>
> root wrote:
> > "John Harris" <johnh@antispam.comptroub.co.nz> wrote in message
> > news:OBaRr66cEHA.1888@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> >
> >>Forgive me. I should have realised I was talking to the preeminent
world
> >>expert on backup. I had not noticed the Hot Swap SATA drive capability
in
> >>my clients servers (Dell PowerEdge or Compaq ProLiant), nor had I
noticed
> >>the fact their main problem is misplaced or accidentally deleted files.
I
> >>also somehow managed to miss the fact that I needed to spend hours/days
> >>training them to eject one tape and insert the next tape after they were
> >>prompted by reminders as to which tape to put in. Oh, and how careless
of
> >>me not to listen to their own (and legal) requirement to be able to
> >
> > recover
> >
> >>end of month information for up to a year. I bow to your superior
> >
> > wisdom!!!
> >
> > The usual top poster's trick when they can't respond to the points
inline
> > that laid them open. Did the accurate dollar analysis below cause you
some
> > discomfort? Anyone can go read it below.
> >
> >
> >>"root" <postmaster@buchanangc.com> wrote in message
> >>news:%23hpYTu4cEHA.244@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> >>
> >>>"John Harris" <johnh@antispam.comptroub.co.nz> wrote in message
> >>>news:ehh42ducEHA.3096@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> >>>
> >>>>Root,
> >>>>I think everyone here accepts that Acronis is an option for backup and
> >>
> >>you
> >>
> >>>>have made some valid points as to it's good points. It does however,
> >>
> >>like
> >>
> >>>>all backup solutions mentioned in this thread, have a/some negatives.
> >>>>Whilst Acronis works well for you and your clients I like tape
> >
> > solutions
> >
> >>>>(although I have clients with other solutions as well). Most of my
> >>>
> >>>clients
> >>>
> >>>>use GFS rotations (25 - 27 tapes depending on the number of backup
> >
> > days)
> >
> >>>Very expensive and trained operator intensive for the small/modest
shop.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>because they need to keep data for long periods. Only one of them is
> >>>>worried about time to restore and they have some manual systems in
> >
> > place
> >
> >>>Many of my clients are more concerned about downtime than lost files.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>ready to rock if the s*** hits the fan. Looking at the costs for the
> >>>>solutions a 73GB SCSI 10K U320 HDD costs my client approx NZ$800
> >>>
> >>>(expensive
> >>>
> >>>>I know, but those are the prices we pay here) so extrapolating that
> >
> > out
> >
> >>>>comes to NZ$20000 for 25 disks (all my clients use SCSI).
> >>>
> >>>For removeable HD backup use [S]ATA and NOT very expensive SCSI HDs is
> >
> > the
> >
> >>>way to go and if you actually needed 25 then 25 x $180USD(250GB) =
> >>
> >>$4500USD
> >>
> >>>of VERY FAST and convenient backup media.
> >>>
> >>>Since the SCSI drives you cited are 73GB and the SATA is 250GB then 3
> >>
> >>cycles
> >>
> >>>could go on each SATA HD making it cost 8 x 180 = $1440USD for a vastly
> >>>faster and more convenient solution.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> An internal
> >>>>80/160GB VS160 drive will cost them approx NZ$3200 and the media is
> >>>
> >>>NZ$170.
> >>>
> >>>>So far I have not had to buy a SCSI card as they use an on-board
> >>>
> >>>connector.
> >>>
> >>>>So the cost of this solution is NZ$7450 with 25 tapes. This
> >
> > represents
> >
> >>a
> >>
> >>>>significant cost saving for them and Acronis is not an option.
> >>>
> >>>They need to get a second opinion.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Yes, I know
> >>>>that the tapes need to be changed every couple of years but I can buy
> >
> > a
> >
> >>>lot
> >>>
> >>>>of tapes for NZ$14550.
> >>>
> >>>Clueless comparision.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>I have, and will continue to look at Acronis as an option if that is
> >>
> >>what
> >>
> >>>>will meet a clients needs or desires. But I think you are taking a
> >>
> >>rather
> >>
> >>>>narrow view of the options by (apparently) confining yourself to only
> >>
> >>one
> >>
> >>>>solution. I believe it is our job to provide the best advice and
> >>>
> >>>solutions
> >>>
> >>>>to match their budget (because that is very important to them) and
> >>>>requirements.
> >>>
> >>>Yes, now when do you start that for YOUR customers?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>I have always managed to convince clients that they should
> >>>>spend more than they initially thought because of the importance of
> >>
> >>backup
> >>
> >>>Snakeoil.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
> --
> http://www.sbslinks.com/really.htm
>

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