Re: why have a server?...advice needed

Thanks again for taking the time to reply. This is exactly the dialogue I
was hoping for. See my replies below.

"leew [MVP]" <useContactPage@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:47edb592$0$5611$607ed4bc@xxxxxxxxx
Greg Peterson wrote:
Very good points, but allow me to respond....

Quick question - what is it this business does? Is it a real estate
agency? A sales office? What? I don't need to know EXACT SPECIFIC
DETAILS, but I'm being forced to generalize because I know nothing of what
the business will do, other than it will have 20-30 users and many with
laptops.

It's a light manufacturing company. About 20 office people (design
engineers, purchasing, HR, accounting, etc.) and about 8 people in the plant
(of which only 2 people in shipping & receiving have computers).

"leew [MVP]" <useContactPage@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:47ed89c1$0$25019$607ed4bc@xxxxxxxxx
1. Single Logon. In a domain environment, you can setup your computers
so that each user has a logon that can be used on ANY computer. When
they change their password, the change is effective on ALL computers
that are a member of the domain. In a Workgroup, you must setup a user
account on EACH computer the user will log on to - or use a common logon
which means you have no way of tracking who does what.

Everyone will have one computer, and there will not be any need to use
one another's computer. So I guess the Single Logon does not matter
here.

Sorry, but in my experience, there's always a need, especially when you
have 20-30 users. Even for you or your support people.

Still not convinced we'd be using one another's computer. In the 3
businesses I've worked in (all fairly large companies), I've never been
asked to use someone else's computer, nor has someone else used mine.

2. Centralized Management - you can control system settings on ALL
systems from one system. For example, SBS will allow you to redirect
everyone's My Documents and Desktop folders to a folder on the server.
This is called folder redirection.

This is a good point, but what is the purpose of collecting everyone's
"My Documents" and desktop folders? Is it for backup purposes? If so,
why not use an online backup tool for each computer (e.g.
www.carbonite.com). Cost is about $50/year per computer.

Ok... $50/computer/year... that's $1000 per year. How much data will you
have? How fast will your internet connection be? Folder Redirection is
also used when users move around. At one of my clients, they are packed
in like sardines and by redirecting their folders, they can sit at ANY
unused computer and when they log on, they have complete access to all
their files without having to do anything. But that's not the only form
of centralized management.

That's right. $1000/year for safe, secure backup with unlimited storage.
Regardless of the backup solution, we will pay for a T-1 (to ensure Skype
has sufficient bandwidth), and do the backups at night. To compare with
what my present employer does, we paid several thousand $ for a server &
tape backup system, and pay $750/MONTH for Iron Mountain data storage to
come onsite every morning to pickup our tapes and store them offsite. You
can see how $1000/year quickly got my attention.

I assume you'll be getting Microsoft Office for this company? Or perhaps
an Antivirus program? Both office and Antivirus can be deployed using
Active Directory. Do you want to go around to each machine and install
office manually? Or would you like to copy the source CD to the network,
define the package, and then the next time each computer is booted, office
and the antivirus program and possible other software is automatically
installed. Ok... so you buy office with the computer... fine... what
about upgrades?

Here you bring up a genuine advantage. I can see the pain/time required of
going around to each machine to do updates. But so far, that seems to be
one of the few concrete benefits of using a server.

Do you think you might want to be able to restrict what people do online?
Servers can help you do that more effectively and administered all from a
remote location. What happens if you have a custom software program that
needs an update on each computer... with a small script, you can push that
update to everyone's systems with about 20 minutes of work.

We may need to restrict what they do online, but isn't that possible using a
fairly sophisticated router? As for the custom software program you asked
about, so far I foresee us only using over-the-counter software.

Perhaps you'd like to TRY to prevent your systems from getting infected
with malware... well, you CAN go to each computer and implement policies
manually - or you can setup one or more policies and apply them to all
workstations from the server simply by placing the workstation or policy
on the appropriate object in Active Directory.

Another genuine advantage. I'll think this one over, but see my point below
about malware.

How about setting up printers? Is everyone going to have their own? That
seems like a waste... do you want to know who prints what? Maybe give
someone priority so their print jobs ALWAYS print first (bosses usually
like that). Maybe you want to add a printer to the network... Well, with
a server, add the printer to an SBS system and the next time the
workstation user logs on, they have access the printer... OR you could go
around and spend 5 minutes on each computer configuring the printer
manually... or instruct your users how to do it, I suppose...

My current employer leases a very heavy use printer/copier/fax for about
$500/month that serves all employees. If someone ahead of you has a
500-page file printing, the touch screen on the printer allows you to change
the priority of the queue. As for adding the printer, this is a one-time
setup on all computers, so I would just e-mail out the 5-step process for
each person to set up the printer. I see no real advantage here of having a
server.

3. I've used Gmail for an organization I'm in. I love google... but I
HATE gmail. I've gotten so many important messages flagged as SPAM it's
not funny. Maybe it was a config error on our administrators part, but
I also don't like that I can't create (easily, if at all) sub folders. I
would strongly advise against using the gmail facility at this time (I'm
sure I'm in the minority).

Point taken.

4. Centralized backup. With Folder redirection, mentioned in #2,
you can backup virtually all user data without concern by backing up
JUST the server. (Your network, ideally, will be setup so that your
users can use ANY workstation (or almost any workstation) and if one
fails, it really won't matter; they can sit at another employee's desk
and pick up right where they left off).

See my response to point #2 above. If someone's computer fails, there
will of course be some downtime given the time to reconfigure their
computer and retrieve their backup, but that should be somewhat rare.

It should be - until they get infected with malware once a month (or more
often) because that new employee likes to tweak EVERYTHING and downloads
software illegally or maybe "stumbles" onto a porno web site with malware
embedded in it.

Maybe I'm underestimating the danger of malware. Isn't Vista supposed to be
much more "resistant" to malware? Can't a good firewall at the router
prevent most types of malware. Again, I do not see how having a server is
the only solution here.

5. Exchange Server, included with SBS, will provide shared and group
calendars, e-mail, tasks, and contacts.

I have been using Gmail's group calendar and contacts and find them both
very good.

I haven't used them so I can't specifically comment on them... but
consider this - IF you buy a server, the obvious choice is Small Business
Server (SBS). SBS is CHEAPER than a "Standard" copy of server AND it
INCLUDES Exchange Server... so you might as well put it to good use. The
capabilities of exchange are impressive (and occasionally frustrating --
but you can say about virtually any groupware solution).

6. One of the best features of SBS (and Windows Server 2003 and later)
is Volume Shadow Copy, not typically offered by any CHEAP NAS. This
feature takes automatic, periodic backups that users can easily restore
themselves by right clicking on a folder and reviewing the history of
the backups. EXPENSIVE NAS units typically offer this "snapshot"
feature, but they typically cost AT LEAST $5,000 - usually more like
$10K plus.

The NAS would be used only for file sharing, not for taking backup
images. An online tool like Carbonite would be used. Storing the data
online (and offsite) makes sense in that it protects from fire, floods,
etc.

Volume Shadow Copy is NOT the same thing. I assume Carbonite would run
nightly? Volume shadow copy, as I configure it for most of my clients,
runs every 3 hours from 7am to 7pm. At which point you can go back to any
of the backup points - 7am, 10am, 1pm, 4pm, or 7pm on a given day. And
it's instantaneous (as instantaneous as a file copy).

The more frequent backup points are nice, but we're not running a nuclear
reactor here : ). Simply turning back the clock to the previous night's
backup would sufficient for most. If they are working on something crucial,
they should back it up to flash drive throughout the day.

Otherwise, in general, you are correct. Except that this is dependent
upon your internet connection to some extent and the recovery time would
be longer.

Also, how are you backing up the NAS device? What happens if it fails?
Especially if you end up setting up a significant configuration, this
could be HOURS of tedious work getting a NAS to replace it.

The NAS would also be backed up to Carbonite. Right now, I'm looking at the
Droboshare, which has received widespread praise for it's simplicity and
idiot-proof concept.
http://www.drobo.com/products_droboshare.aspx


7. Remote access options with SBS include Remote Web Workplace,
Sharepoint, and VPN.

This is a very good point, but with laptops being issued to many
employees who travel, and using Gmail for e-mail and calendar features, I
see the remote logon being less important. The only thing they'd need
remote access to would be the local NAS, which we would probably set up
with an FTP or something.

I hope you wouldn't use FTP. That's just inviting people to steal your
data. FTP is an insecure protocol, user names and passwords are
transmitted in clear text, meaning anyone who can catch a packet can
determine how to access your files. This is not exactly difficult for a
hacker.
Good point. Could we circumvent this risk by using SSL?


What about accounting systems? Or maintenance?


I have a few pages you might want to review to get a better
understanding of the SBS product and backup in general. You should also
might want to review the link on Volume Shadow Copy.

http://www.visualwin.com/VSS/
http://www.lwcomputing.com/tips/static/sbs.asp
http://www.lwcomputing.com/tips/static/backup.asp
Thanks very much for taking the time to reply.

Couple of other tips -

Get an account rep with Dell (or some other major vendor - my preference
is Dell) and for a business, stick to the OptiPlex, Latitude, Workstation,
and PowerVault lines. These systems are relatively cheap, come with
excellent warranties, and are GENERALLY highly reliable in my experience.
EVERYONE can make a lemon... and everyone can make a BATCH of lemons...
but in my experience, you have very good odds of NOT having too many
lemons and when you do, getting them repaired quickly, when using Dell.
(I despise HP - every time I've called their support for ANYTHING I get
routed to India and get a different, lame suggestion as to how to repair
something. Again, in my experience, 50/50 chance you hit the Dell India
support queue... but that's a 50% better chance than you have with HP...
and you can always call Dell back later.

My present employer uses Dell Latitude series and I agree they are very
reliable.

When buying Laptops, get 3 year warranties AND 3 year accidental damage
coverage. It's expensive (typically $400-$500 per laptop), but laptops
travel MUCH more than desktops... things spill, they drop, etc. The
warranty will protect against all that.

When buying a server, get a 3 year, 24x7x365 warranty with 4 hour
response. MUST BE 4 hour response. The server runs the business. The
desktop does not. Desktops can have 1 year warranties... but the server
needs a FULL 3 year warranty.


.

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