Re: Dual Boot (follly)

Vince wrote:
Thanks for the putdown, Just have a few computers at home and have been learning about how to use them. Maybe 10 months. My kids are using computers in school so I guess a big train wreck is starting. Maybe if I had started in 1985, i would be as smart as you? but then again, what does boiling water have to do with computers:) I appreciate your imput, but not your sarcastic remarks. "Slip Kid" wrote: 

Vince,

You'll know a putdown when I choose to display it. I did not put you down. I was/am sympathetic to your situation, took a great deal of time providing more than you needed to know at this time.

If you would have started 20 years ago, you would know more than you know now. So what!? You're starting now and you do not lack the means to find sufficient information -Which I did not enjoy 20 years ago!

I do not claim to be an expert or flash my credentials. Trial and error is a slow way to learn and is a path full of mistakes. But, I did my own research and applied various solutions - many, did not work. I did arrive with methods that work well and am not shy about revealing them.

I've found the microsoft.public.* groups to be both helpful and insulting. I still visit? I tend not to 'rely' upon them with any particular faith. Pegesus is bright. I was sincere when I wrote I have saved many of his responses.

We did not agree on the best way to solve for you to a way to establish a dual boot. (At least he showed some open mindedness - few in these groups dare suggest a non MS solution!)

If I was sarcastic (not to you, but to Pegasus) it was because I responded to his 12 point plan, line by line - - he fobbed me off with an insult and then claimed I wasn't (yet should have been) responding to you - - It was clear my original note addressed his 12 point solution for you! I responded to him as only he could explain his way versus ming? Is that so tough to figure out?

Vince, ulitmately you are on your own! Neither Pegasus or anyone here or on Usenet or on the Web is going to provide a solution that is without risks or drawbacks.

My only contention was that your *request* was hardly novel and since you were wishing to combine two MS OS's, well - it's been done for a long time and even MS admits to straightforward procedures. (Again, take their advice with a grain of salt)

In summary, I have two complaints:

1. I don't believe a third-party boot manager is required. I mentioned I've used at least five or six and each one ended up with doing "more" than I needed - and causing problems, eventually. For years, MS has provided a simple, safe and easy way to dual-boot multiple MS OS's. If you are going to install Linux? Yes, a third party solution is reasonable (and provided with a Linux distribution!)

Thus, I am at a loss why anyone would/could justify going outside a damn good approach to installing a second OS.

Vince? Depending on your disc configuration, the intallation of a second operating system is now 'automatic'! Yes, MS realized (years ago) people were doing it anyway and they provide the mean for the second OS to be as easily installed (and operated) as the first. The scare tactics about the risk of using the MS install do not exist. When you boot? You are given a choice which system to run (with the MS boot.ini menu). Choose an OS and you are "there". As they say in Vegas: What goes on there, stays there."

I won't bother you with the unnecessary tampering of the Master Boot Record as many boot manager will do. Nor will I testify why and how it can lead to a bad end.

XLOS is a fine boot manager? If you would have preped your discs and simply installed the second OS? You could re-boot and be making a choice of which OS to use as soon as the second OS was *in*.

It's simple: What percentage of dual-boots rely upon the MS config and what problems are they having? What percentage use any single third party solution? Go to their forums and see what problems they are having?

Yes, MS does not provide many utilties or uses apps that either less good than which can be found in the market. I their effort to allow for a second OS is lacking, I have not seen a substitute which offers greater benefit without undue risk.

No, I'm not a flag waver and most of my posts are critical of MS. For me to endorce them is a rarity! They do well with your need.

2. Regarding the tangents I went off on? They are not unrelated to your current task and should not be ignored. Yes, I believe some basic principles in configuring and maintaining a disc will not only prevent future efforts from being a grand production? I also indicated some measures (creating an image of data) and using a bootable CD which will make a possible disasters managable.

Do visit http://bootdisk.com/ as jumping of point for many of my sources of *wisdom*. You can spend days at the site and it has links to days more of enlightenment.

---

So, I did not intend to insult you.

+ I prefer not to get into a pissing contest with Pegasus - a person who I respect and who's advice I've followed and even maintain a folder which include many of his tips.

Sadly, he chose to interpret my doubts and questins as accusations or threats to his credibility. I don't know, but when anyone claims a single approach (to but a few technical issues) they are bound to draw a second opinion. I was surprised he was so touchy concerning a rather mundane issue as installing a second OS! No, my advice came from well respected sources and if the thought he was ignoring me - - well, I was only the frontman for a great deal more than he appeared to indicate when he passed it 'lloff as *drivel*.

We'll all survive! Pegasus will ignore me, you doubt me and feel as though I suggested you are *inferiour*. Not a good way for me to win friends and influence people.

Me? I'm still waiting for as thoughtful a critique of my advice as I provided.

As I only drew upon years of documentation and personal experience, I don't have an investment (personal or professional) in success - I am always eager to change course as I don't go by a book -- My goal is easy, healthy and safe computing. I doubt I will ever be a trusted source, here? It isn't my goal. I am here to learn and pass on information which works for me. If it's wrong? I benefit! No one is going to yank my certification and I enjoy the luxury of of being naive. But I see plenty of advice here that is far from perfect but too many people are cursed by hubris. At least I admit the *empowerer* has no clothes.

I doubt you'll meet with disaster. But I can't claim I am as secure in your approach as if you would have spent some time at the MS site & multiple sites which don't demand a third party approach to a second OS.

It isn't me V Pegasus! There is plenty of information from all concerned parties which will provide you with *knowledge*.

--

Finally, do no demean yourself. You're curious! If you are more agressive (there are answers everywhere) you'll be amazed at how shallow the learning curve is.

Remember: This is not a religion. Faith is rarely required. If there were a computer god? He'd have some serious answerng to do.

So, good luck and while I doubt you'll trust me, my e-mail is legit and I'll be happy to help you catch up.


Vince,

My advice was labled a "duplication of effort".

Where have you been since?

Yes, the silence is deafening.  It's been me you and Pegasus!

Did you go back and read the first response from Arec? He was on the mark and needed only include a few other bits of advice. But he'd set you on a sound path and any question beyond that would easily been answered (by Arec).

Methinks Arec can get a dualboot in, in record time.  He sure scattered!

In over a decade of installing more dual-boots than I can count, (for myself, clients and friends) I don't recall ever spending more than an afternoon, at the longest? Hell, with small drives (half a gig) I made it work with 2 OS's having to share he same partition/volume. (No, I never walked miles to return a book as did Mr. Lincoln).

Yes, your circumstances requried advance preparation - maybe an hour or two at best. Vince, this was a no-brainer!

Here we are on the tenth and your initial post was made on the 7th. I dare say had you gone to the MS site (rarely my sole choice for advice) and one or two other sites which have been dealing with this now common practice for years...Well, Vince? I'll bet you'd have been up and running that evening.

Yes, as "unnecessary" as much of my advice was (it did concern more than a strict reply to the narrow subject a hand)? Even if you you'd have done *all* I advised, line by line - - this would be over. Ignore my further advice for now? You may revisit my tips when you recover from this.

Funny thing? If you never visited this group? If you only did a Google search for "dual boot" (or Dual-boot or dualboot)?

Vince, the book was writen years ago! In fact, now most of the results refer to a Linux install.

You have to scroll down a page of results to find an MS only queston. Yeah, sometimes around the turn of the century a dual boot became "traditional". If only you would have looked at ten sites you would probably have found 95% agreement between 90% of them. In fact, some of the early "Flagship sites" are gone! They don't have anything new to offer.

I hope your new buddy lives a long time. I suspect he'll be at your beckoned call more than once in the future. Amazing how silent this group is. I sincerly doubt anyone who has installed more than a hanfull of dualboots can believe how this has turned out to be a few day project.

At which point do we use the word *fiasco*?

Has anybody here who had done this more than once spent more than a day with it? An evening?

Yeah, I haven't used a machine without a dual boot in over a dozen years. Each upgrade or any modification to a box, drive or OS was within that config. I don't know if I haven't used a third party boot manager out there. Why have I always returned to boot.ini? It isn't that I didn't 'try' and experiment with a diffeent method!

You are not dumb! But few of the questions or problems you present fall into the *complicated* catagory. Let others conclude why this has become "complicated".

If my suggestion was so *wrong", I wonder why it is largely still the boilerplate various MS suggestions and appears at most any site you would choose at random. (Execpt if you were installing a Linux OS).

Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill! Viince, sometimes "A cigar is just a cigar."

I suppose this will be fixed, if it already isn't? I hope your method guarantees it is *over*. I can give you more than a few reasons why you will revist this scene (if not this group).

I've never been so proud to be insulted! I watch you run into one unnecessary brick wall after another and fight the urge to be smug knowing not only should this be behind you but I have litle confidence you did anything but set yourself on a path which will require you to pose more than a few questions as long as you rely upon this solution.

Good Luck Vince! You have undertaken one of the simplest technical proceedures. In the face of the preponderence of evidence of "how most people" satisfy your need - you chose the fork in the road.

I'd like to see the response in this group to the queston: "How do I boil water?"

[Answer]

"Well, first you have do dig a well...."

Sez I? "Wait, he has water coming out of the tap!" (But that would be too simple!)

Yes, Pegasus is going to ignore me! (As will the legions who may fear his repudiation?)

I guess there is a new and better (but also held in confidence) way of installing a second MS OS!


.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Dual Boot (follly)
    ... Just have a few computers at home and have been ... > mark and needed only include a few other bits of advice. ... Vince, this was a no-brainer! ... (Execpt if you were installing a Linux OS). ...
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  • "The Complete FreeBSD", third edition: errata and addenda
    ... You'll boot your system in at least two different ways: ... installing the system, or if you have requested it with the -c option to the ... you should check that the parameters ARRE (Auto Read Reallocation ... The revised second edition was formatted on 11 February 1999. ...
    (freebsd-questions)