Re: Dual Boot

Pegasus (MVP) wrote: 
"Slip Kid" <G-2@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:T3Afe.194123$cg1.6376@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Pegasus (MVP) wrote:

"Slip Kid" <G-2@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:efxfe.193688$cg1.6652@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


Pegasus (MVP) wrote: 


<snip>


*** Nobody has ever claimed that the native Windows boot manager
*** is more than a very basic solution, not even Microsoft. When MS
*** do not have a good in-house solution they often buy a company
*** that has - see defraggers, partition managers.

I believe a simple dual boot with an MS OS combo is as basic as it gets. I have piles of documentation regarding dual booting, going back to the days when two OS's were not always compatible. Cite where MS recommends a third party solution for a dual boot with XP and '03?

The MS boot process/files I refer to are safe, sufficient and not lacking - a third part solution is not required for the OP's case.


Just a few examples from your reply to illustrate my main point:

You write:
It's now simple enough to create a bootable image and not only include
necessary files full utilities that allow you to boot from your Rom and
at least be *into* you drive(s), see what's up and do quite a bit of
repair (depending on the utilities you chose to put on the boot CD

My comments:
- Necessary files full utilities? Meaning?

Take a look at the utilities included with the boot discs I cited? As you have little patience with my writing I won't enumerate them. They are largely diagnostic and repair apps. When a disc fails to boot, they may be a last resort - and a boot disc is the best/easiest way to use them. Please, the very non-in-house tools you refer to can all be on a boot CD. Yes, even a boot manager!

- At least be *into* you drive(s)? Meaning?

I meant that it is best to boot (for the install) from the install CD rather than accessing the CD from Windows. (This might be self-evident to many, but some assume installing an OS is the same as installing any app.) I won't bore you with the advantages of installing from a boot. I'm sure you can tell me that many questions in these groups can be addressed by asking "Are you installing from at boot?".

- Boot CD? How does a boot CD relate to the OP's question?

Much of the response I was countering was OT. OTOH, if the OP was contemplating *more* than an install (re-partition..etc) I took advantage of giving him some broad advice that may be useful to him. I believe much of his *dilemma* could have been avoided had he better prepped his discs before he used them.

Re-partiton? I see that as a solution too often - well after a system is in use. How can you claim it is anything but a risk to do that with an active and loaded drive? What is wrong with having your disc formatted correctely *before* one uses it?

=======================
You write:
A glutton for punishment and working outside the MS frame.  When it
blows, you're on your own.

My comments:
You don't seem to know XOSL. XOSL modifies the MBR
(a change that is easily reversed), and it leaves the various
OSs alone. You can remove XOSL in less than two minutes,
then boot from Windows without any further change.
In other words, it is unwise to comment on products unless
you know them very well.

I used XOSL from its beginning. It is one of the simpler boot managers. Is any app that modifies the MBR without risk? Why is it necessary for the OP to take the risk in his case?

Actually XOSL is great for other tasks!? It need not be *installed" for some of them or even for use as a boot manager?!

For me? It was not easily un-installed. (It quit 'working' but did not 'leave' my disc) The solution was to replace the MBR.

Forums/Usenet if rife with problems relating to third party boot managers. Boot.ini can be copied, saved and if there is a problem? Well, one can either boot from a floppy (using the boot files) or a CD and simply replace the MS files.
Again, Google and boot manager and see what happen when things go wrong?


=======================
You write:
Have a *reason* to use a third party boot manager.  I have not seen
the necessity with MS OS's.

My comments:
Here are two excellent reasons:
- Modularity: Without a proper boot manager, one OS ends up
on a drive other than C:. A frequent question in this newsgroup
goes like this: I no longer need my OS on drive C: - how can
I move the one from drive D: to drive C:. With your method
you can't. With a proper boot manager it's easy.

Yes, I suppose if one is not prepared for the future they will pay when it arrives! I solve your problem by re-partitioning any new drive. The primary volume on each drive is a small (200 meg) FAT partition which is both DOS and contains the system boot files only.

I then have the maximum active volumes established - allowing for multiple OS's in the future.
I what way is my method less convenient, less safe than a boot manager. (without any of the risks a boot manager holds.) Are you willing to claim a third-party boot manager is without risk. (Trust me, I am not an MS flag waver! I find many of their *apps* lacking and use many third party utilities. - Sorry to harp on boot.ini? Your scenario above is avoidable without resorting to a third-party boot manager)

- Separation. Many people have children who tend to wreck
Windows with Internet downloads and viruses. Some of them
install two versions of Windows: One for the kids, one for
themselves. With your method, viruses can easily damage
both versions. With a proper boot manager, they can damage
one installation only because the other one is completely
incaccesible.

If a kid boots to *their" OS on drive in volume 2 on drive 1 (in my config) and runs into trouble? The trouble is *isolated* from any other OS's. I recently picked up an nasty Trojan on drive 0? I simply went into a clean/healthy OS on drive 1 and was able to clean the OS on drive 1.

Further, by isolating my OS's/boot volumes? By using sysprep I've been able to migrate OS's to other drives, boxes with little effort. (Yes, I've moved OS to places where I was told they would not function) I think you might agree forsight allow one to face situations in the future without greif.


While I will readily recognise that your initial response was
well-meant, it suffers from these problems:
- It's unnecessarily wordy.

Yes, I went off on a tangent. I'm sorry if I believe proper disc management begins at disk prep and few people take the time to consider how flexible a disc can be if it is prepped with the future in mind. (It is not difficult to format a disk and use some imagination: "What might I be doing in the future." My method allows one to more easily go to a Linux OS (on another drive) and if a boot manager is required, multiple, active partitions that are established at format will be appreciated. Also, having a small, primary boot on each drive offers several advantages.

As for the references to the drive imaging and disk partitioning in general? That was a result of addressing another issue, not brought up by me or the original OP.

- Some of it is incomprehensible.
- It ignores the features of proper boot managers.
- It fails to give the OP a clear path to resolve this problem.

Use a boot manager if it is the *only* solution. I do not believe it is a necessary solution with SP and '02. I have used at least half a dozen boot managers. None as been as reliable as the MS multi boot if one is only using MS OS's. I addressed a way of isolating OS''s even if one is using boot.ini.

Pegasus, I respect you. You've given me some great advice over the years! Pardon me? But it is your *advice* which led me to a more thoughtful approach prior to *using* a system! That is, *you* saved me from having to resort to a *clear path* which might not have been the best path had I not been better prepared.

I rank you with the best? In this case the OP seems to be in a situation which might be best solved by a more comprehensive approach to his discs. It's not too late. Regarding my *advice* concerning imaging and boot discs and utilities and partitioning? Yes, one can *survive* without the extra effort.

Multiple primary volumes only offer advantage(s). (I also believe the small boot partition, 'hidden' on drive 1 is wise - it is essentially a *ready to go* drive in case of a disaster on drive 0)).

If you believe one should accept a new machine with a single partition? We do not agree?. In as little as half an hour I can prep a new drive which will meet various contingencies.

No, I regard you highly and except for your insistance of a third party boot manager in this case my drive is full of useful advice from you. I wouldn't dare compare myself to you? But I also believe I suggested some sound practices. Calling it *drivel* did not address the value of some vere simple *rules* that I have seen to be of great value.

But no, I won't put my life on the line if one wishes to use a third party boot manager. Go for it and good luck!
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Dual Boot
    ... It's now simple enough to create a bootable image and not only include necessary files full utilities that allow you to boot from your Rom and at least be *into* you drive, see what's up and do quite a bit of repair (depending on the utilities you chose to put on the boot CD ... When a disc fails to boot, they may be a last resort - and a boot disc is the best/easiest way to use them. ... Google and boot manager and see what happen when things go wrong? ... able to migrate OS's to other drives, ...
    (microsoft.public.windows.server.general)
  • wont boot up
    ... >My computer will not boot up. ... original XP disc to hand we need to tell the computer not ... now use the PAge up and down keys to select ... disable, now go to the heading for the hard drives, the ...
    (microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware)
  • Re: Dual Boot
    ... The operating system that is on his computer is windows xp home ... > plugged the IDE cable in, I can boot to windows Home edition which is now ... >> some of them or even for use as a boot manager?! ... >> able to migrate OS's to other drives, ...
    (microsoft.public.windows.server.general)
  • Re: Disc boot failure, after files deleted, please help
    ... the hardrive, maybe more, when I boot up, just get disk boot failure ... Screen shows disk drive B none, ... The first thing to do is determine that all of the drives are connected to ... We got this in 2002, don't have the xp install disc, or can't find ...
    (microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support)
  • Re: Dual Boot
    ... The operating system that is on his computer is windows xp home ... but when I try to boot to the windows server, I get an error message; ... > some of them or even for use as a boot manager?! ... > able to migrate OS's to other drives, ...
    (microsoft.public.windows.server.general)