Re: NT PDC can no longer administer users it it's own domain but can in others.

From: Timothy Drouillard (timdrouillard_at_comcast.net)
Date: 09/26/04 

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 12:35:15 -0400

"Scott Davis" <sdavis@esctech.ca> wrote in message
news:OkaRAC%23oEHA.1712@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> Timothy Drouillard wrote:
>
>> The network in question has been up and running for many years.....
>>
>> The other day, as part of some routine maintenance, I noticed that the
>> PDC
>> still had the Netbui and IPX protocols installed from many years ago.
>>
>> We only use TCP/IP protocol across all out networks/domains, si I decided
>> to
>> remove the un-needed protocols.
>>
>> The PDC also had the NT Gateway for Netware service installed, so I
>> removed
>> that service at the same time I removed the IPX and Netbui protocols.
>>
>> Rebooted the PDC and it appeared to come up just fine.
>>
>> However, a couple of days later, I tried to start User Manager for
>> Domains
>> on the PDC and an error message, something like..
>>
>> Invalid Handle. Do you wish to select another Domain to Administer?
>>
>> I can select another of our domains, and User Manager will load just
>> fine.
>> However I get the same error message every time I try to select the PDC's
>> own domain.
>>
>> I can go to the BDC (no changes were made to the BDC) and try to bring
>> up
>> User Manager for Domains, but I get a different error message..
>> 'Insufficient System Resources exist to complete the requested Service.
>> Do
>> you want to select another Domain to Administer"
>>
>> Again, I can select another domain just fine.
>>
>> Are the errors on the PDC and the BDC related?
>>
>> Also, to complicate the situation,
>>
>> I decided to try re-applying Service Pack 6a to the PDC. I started the SP
>> install, but after it extracted all the files then started the install
>> process, it gave me an error message..
>> "Service Pack Setup Cannot Update a Checked (Debug) System With A Free
>> (Retail) Version of the Service Pack , or Vice Versa"
>>
>> Hmmmm. Never seen that one before...
>> Decided to bring up the internet to connect to Microsoft to Check for
>> Updates (hasn't been done in a long time) and perhaps download SP6a
>> again.
>> However when I start Internet Explorer 6sp1, all I get is an empty IE
>> Screen. It doesn't seem to be trying to connect to anything. Our Websense
>> login screen doesn't even come up.
>>
>> Decided to go back into the Network Properties and re-install the
>> protocols
>> I had removed, but now I can't bring up the Network Properties. I get yet
>> another error..
>> "An error Occurred While Windows was Working With The Control Panel File
>> C:\Winnt\System32\NCPA.CPL"
>>
>> I can go to the BDC and verify that I can still bring up Network
>> Properties,
>> and then check the date and file size of NCPA.CPL and it matches with
>> what I
>> see on the PDC.
>>
>>
>> Anybody have any ideas???
>> Why would removing the Netbui and IPX protocols affected the ability of
>> the
>> PDC (and BDC apparently) to manage thier own Domains yet be able to
>> manage
>> other Domains that we have trusts with.
>>
>> Why can't I use the same copy of SP6a on this PDC that I have been using
>> for
>> years to update all my NT boxes?
>>
>> How can I get my network properties to work again?
>>
>>
>>
>> Needless to say, even though the networks is still woking fine for the
>> users, not being able to use the User Manager for Domains from either my
>> PDC
>> or my one BDC has me worried big-time.
>>
>>
>
> I've seen similar error messages -- in the past. I haven't had a "real"
> NT4 PDC under my control in more than two years -- so some of this may be
> a bit fuzzy...
>
> Generally, it sounds to me like your PDC dosen't think it can resolve/talk
> with itself. Your users can logon, right -- but the next time you
> need/want to write to the SAM you're probbably going to find yourself in
> trouble.

That's what I'm afraid of.

>
> Take a good long hard look at the IP settings -- and the stuff in WINS (I
> assume you're running WINS)..

Yep, running WINS, on the PDC as a matter of fact.

>
> There are some records in WINS that relate specifically to "who's the
> PDC", if my memory serves me correctly. Broken-ness in the WINS db (or
> just plain wrong entries that aren't replicating properly..) are common
> scenarios.

Thanks. I'll look over the WINS settings.

>
> Look at the basic IP settings (inc. DNS and WINS servers) -- and then look
> at the WINS db -- and look at it on ALL the WINS servers.

No DNS servers in-house, but I will look at the WINS db.

>
> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;259216&Product=nts40
>
>
>
>
> You know what the simple solution is, right? Get the files and other data
> off the PDC, shut it down -- promote one of your BDCs to PDC -- and then
> re-install the machine with NT4/BDC.. put the files/printers/etc.. back
> in and get on with your life.
>

Yep. That's what I'll probably have to do in the end, but right now there's
only one BDC, and User Manager for Domains won't manage it's own domain on
that server either. It'll manage other domains just fine, just not it's own.

>
> Yup, things do go wiggly, once in a blue moon. If the OS is really
> broken -- prep to re-format the machine. So long as your name services
> (wins and DNS) are okay -- it's really quite simple.
>
>
> I do have to say it though -- toss that NT4 stuff as soon as you can.
> Sure, there's a bit of a learning curve to AD -- but getting rid of
> *(&!@#*@ WINS is worth the effort.. in my humble opinion. *grin*
>
I totally agree that we should have converted to Server 200x and AD a long
time ago, but we are contrained by the fact our company is a division of a
much larger company, and the Corporate IS Dept is also still on NT, and to
start converting any/all divisions has a ripple effect. etc etc.

> I hate wins.. I hate wins.. la-la-lala.. I hate wins..
>
> (I had it with like 800 PCs and nearly 45-50 servers across 10-11
> locations/subnets. Wins can go fsck itself. *giggle*)
>
>
> Best of luck. Feel free to call the number below if you want to toss the
> old idea or two around ..
>
> Cheers,
> Scott..

Thanks for the suggestions, it gives me a few palces to start and I few
ideas.

I'm still at a loss why I can bring up the network properties at all
anymore, or why trying to apply SP6a is giving the errors it is..

>
>
>
>
> ====================================================
> Scott Davis, 45 Dunfield Av, Unit 2117
> Self-Employed Toronto, ON, Canada, M4S 2H4
> Tech Consultant Mobile. (416) 432-4334
>
> The IP addrs I use to post all UseNet:
> 66.207.215.240/29
> ====================================================
>

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