Re: Long failover time...

Insult? Sorry you took it that way, but did not see a firm grasp of TCP/IP
in your posts. Using host files for heartbeats or the public network is
simply not a best practice or required.

Peace I am out of here :)

Cheers,

Rodney R. Fournier

MVP - Windows Server - Clustering
http://www.nw-america.com - Clustering Website
http://msmvps.com/clustering - Blog
http://www.clusterhelp.com - Cluster Training
ClusterHelp.com is a Microsoft Certified Gold Partner


"Kenny Speer" <kenny.speer@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:OxRAAJf3HHA.2064@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
So we resort to insults? You've no idea what my background is or how long
I've been working with TCP/IP and your comment has nothing to do with the
topic of discussion.

Very nice. I don't think Comer is going to discuss hearbeat messages.

Again, you guys are way over reacting. CCS uses the host file, exchange
(edge nodes) use the host file, etc etc.

And, I was explicitly stating that the cluster comm was NOT used just for
the hearbeat. It's used for all cluster communication. So, you're right,
I'm not arguing, hearbeat doesn't care about the hostname, and I never
said it did. To refresh you both "(i'm not just talking about heartbeat
here)"

"Rodney R. Fournier [MVP]" <rod@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
message news:uktgK2e3HHA.4676@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Kenny, I suggest you read Comer's book TCP/IP. Hosts files are not needed
for the heartbeat and Russ and I have already stated. If you can state
any Microsoft white papers on the subject, I am all ears!

Cheers,

Rodney R. Fournier

MVP - Windows Server - Clustering
http://www.nw-america.com - Clustering Website
http://msmvps.com/clustering - Blog
http://www.clusterhelp.com - Cluster Training
ClusterHelp.com is a Microsoft Certified Gold Partner


"Kenny Speer" <kenny.speer@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:OVhAvse3HHA.5880@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Well, I've been setting the IPs in the host file for 7 years now and
have not run into one issue. Again, you only set the IPs of the private
interfaces and, AFAIK, all best practices show the private interfaces as
not being routed anyway, so there should be no issue whatsoever.

I think you're arguing on documentation and best practices which don't
always consider the optimal solution. They consider the *best* solution
for the majority of users based on simplicity and stability.

As for the hosts file. A NIC doesn't use the host file. The routing
stack in the host uses it in the following order: lmhosts, hosts, dns
and wins. There is no issue with bindings or nic configurations. This
is a very simple task that effects nothing except for the IP for the
hosts you put in the file. So, the normal lookup for an IP addr is like
this:

Node1 -> where is Node2 -> is it cached? nope-> how do I find it? -> go
to hosts/lmhosts -> nothing there (they are empty by default) -> use
dns/wins -> found it, use IP returned by gethostbyname() ... The only
difference now, is it finds the host IP in the hosts file and no network
requests are required.

Again, this does not effect anything except for how an IP address is
returned to from the function gethostbyname(), doesn't effect routing,
nic config, etc etc. And it only effects those hosts you put in the
file, hence you only add the cluster Nodes in the file.

~kenny

"Rodney R. Fournier [MVP]" <rod@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
message news:uOpezee3HHA.5796@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Yeah I missed the 90% one. But I will still contain that it (hosts
file) does nothing with a properly configured systems and DNS. I think
you need to check into bindings, cause I believe your are not setup
correctly.

As I stated both nic will use the hosts files and each will need the
address of the other one. In your example you hard code the heartbeat?
I would love to see your nic configurations, bindings, etc. because you
have to be missing a best practice or 3 to have to use this kind of
host file! I hope nobody tries this that reads your post!

MSCS is only Highly Available. Parts of any system, Exchange, SQL can
be FT - Raid hardware, redundant power supplies, etc. The complete
system will only be HA.

Cheers,

Rodney R. Fournier

MVP - Windows Server - Clustering
http://www.nw-america.com - Clustering Website
http://msmvps.com/clustering - Blog
http://www.clusterhelp.com - Cluster Training
ClusterHelp.com is a Microsoft Certified Gold Partner


"Kenny Speer" <kenny.speer@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:OolSpPe3HHA.1204@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Ah, first it's not 90% of clusters, it's 90% of clusters with long
takeover times. Your context is wrong.

Second, in your hosts file, you put a hostname and IP address. Each
NIC only has one IP address (in this config, yes it's possible to add
more), therefore, the hosts file is used for that network only. For
example:

Public Network: 10.x.x.x
Private Cluster Network: 192.168.x.x

In your hosts file, you add: Node1 192.168.x.1 and Node2 192.168.x.2

Pretty simple. If Node1 wants to communicate with Node2 for any
reason, it goes over the private cluster network. No DNS required.
This will ensure that your cluster is running regardless of your DNS
status. For any other network comm, normal DNS lookups are used.

You distinguish between Highly Available and Fault Tolerant (yadda
yadda) here is a Microsoft page which uses Fault Tolerant quite often:

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa997507.aspx

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa997234.aspx

As for where I read it, /etc/hosts and drivers/etc/hosts have been
used forever to bypass DNS in mission critical scenarios.


"Rodney R. Fournier [MVP]" <rod@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
message news:e9oQs%23d3HHA.4400@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Kenny, I am not about to argue that DNS can be an issue. I am firmly
stating that I have never needed a host file on a clustered node.
Does not matter who runs DNS, they just need to ensure it works. DNS
is really easy stuff to get right or wrong. If you really have had a
need on 90% of clusters for DNS, then they had DNS issues, plain and
simple. It is not a best practice to create a hosts file for a
clustered node. Does not matter if DNS is Microsoft or not, it needs
to be configured correctly.

Next, you mentioned a hosts file for the private only? Where did you
read about this? How do you tell a hosts file to only work for one
NIC and not the other(s)?

MSCS is not and never will be fault tolerant, it is considered highly
available. And Windows 2003 with or without clustering is dependant
on DNS, Active Directory has for a long time now.

Cheers,

Rodney R. Fournier

MVP - Windows Server - Clustering
http://www.nw-america.com - Clustering Website
http://msmvps.com/clustering - Blog
http://www.clusterhelp.com - Cluster Training
ClusterHelp.com is a Microsoft Certified Gold Partner


"Kenny Speer" <kenny.speer@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:eJwgbid3HHA.5852@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Not true. If the DNS server is running properly you won't have an
issue. A perfectly configured Cluster can have any number of issues
due to a misconfigured/non functioning DNS server. To say that 90%
of clusters were misconfigured is complete crap. Often, an admin who
owns the clusters does not own the DNS servers and often those DNS
servers are not Microsoft servers. It is absolutely an option to
put the cluster host names ONLY in the hosts file. Scalability is
not an issue, how many nodes are in your cluster? The majority of
clusters are 2-4 nodes, 4 lines isn't very many to add to a host
file which should not change.

Also, remember, the hosts file has the private interface addresses
ONLY, not the public. This insures that all cluster comm from one
node to the other will use the cluster comm interface (i'm not just
talking about heartbeat here) without requiring or *depending* on an
outside service (DNS).

Anyway, I think your argument doesn't hold any water, since we're
talking about making MSCS as fault tolerant as possible but then you
make it *depend* on DNS for proper operation (not access from
clients, but even then, we've used IP addresses for 30 years when
DNS goes down).

~kenny

"Rodney R. Fournier [MVP]" <rod@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote
in message news:eDsCWQd3HHA.4436@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Than 90% of clusters were configured wrong to begin with :)
Honestly, if DNS is running properly you won't ever need a hosts
file. Host files don't scale very well or allow for easy changes!

Cheers,

Rodney R. Fournier

MVP - Windows Server - Clustering
http://www.nw-america.com - Clustering Website
http://msmvps.com/clustering - Blog
http://www.clusterhelp.com - Cluster Training
ClusterHelp.com is a Microsoft Certified Gold Partner


"Kenny Speer" <kenny.speer@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:OvjOjNd3HHA.1208@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Really? Hmmm. I've seen 90% of long failover times resolved by
doing this.

~kenny




"Rodney R. Fournier [MVP]" <rod@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote
in message news:OdC0XMc3HHA.5984@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Hosts file! No, DNS works nicely :)

Cheers,

Rodney R. Fournier

MVP - Windows Server - Clustering
http://www.nw-america.com - Clustering Website
http://msmvps.com/clustering - Blog
http://www.clusterhelp.com - Cluster Training
ClusterHelp.com is a Microsoft Certified Gold Partner


"Kenny Speer" <kenny.speer@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:uaFNDsH2HHA.5884@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I thought it was recommended to put all cluster names/ips in the
hosts file located at:
%WINDIR%\system32\drivers\etc\hosts

By default, you don't want your cluster communicating over the
public (client access) interface and you don't want your cluster
to fail just because your DNS server goes down or is not
accessible.

By adding each node to this file on both nodes, you won't even
do a name lookup via DNS since Windows uses hosts/lmhosts then
DNS.

~kenny

"LOVEBEINGDBA" <LOVEBEINGDBA@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
message
news:EC8A3B7D-E8D7-4B1E-BF4A-DD63E31750E9@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Thanks and I appretiate your reply...

Is it required to create a PTR record for the Cluster Name in
the DNS
Server??? We already have a cluster whose name is registered in
the DNS only
for forward lookup...

Thanks.
Arun M

"John Fullbright" wrote:

"The server for 143.3.16.172.in-addr.arpa. could not be
contacted over
adapter
'Public' to determine whether it accepts DNS registration
updates. Retrying
at a later time"

Looks like problems contacting an authoratative DNS server for
the reverse
lookup zone that holds the PTR record.

..

"LOVEBEINGDBA" <LOVEBEINGDBA@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote
in message
news:A70ABBFB-6DDA-495D-B715-542869DC021C@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Environment:
Windows Server 2003 R2 x64 SP2
MSCS 2 node failover cluster

Failover takes about 2 minutes. When doing the failover the
clustername
take
a long time to come back up.

Clustername has been registered in the DNS for forward look
up .

We have another production cluster and that works fine in
the same setup.

These are the lines I found that are related to this issue
from cluster
log:

00000840.00000bb4::2007/08/06-16:57:27.835 WARN Network Name
<Cluster
Name>:
The server for 143.3.16.172.in-addr.arpa. could not be
contacted over
adapter
'Public' to determine whether it accepts DNS registration
updates.
Retrying
at a later time.
00000840.00000bb4::2007/08/06-16:57:27.835 INFO Network Name
<Cluster
Name>:
Replaced DNS name <clustername.domain> with IP Address
172.16.3.143 over
adapter 'Public'.
00000840.00000b08::2007/08/06-16:57:28.679 INFO Network
Name: time until
next DNS reg: 2007/08/06-22:17:35 (128309122556769715)
00000840.00000bb4::2007/08/06-16:58:26.795 WARN Network Name
<Cluster
Name>:
Failed to register DNS PTR record 143.3.16.172.in-addr.arpa.
for host
<clustername.domain> over adapter 'Public', status 1460
00000840.00000bb4::2007/08/06-16:58:26.795 INFO Network Name
<Cluster
Name>:
Modified DNS name <clustername.domain> with IP Address
172.16.3.143 over
adapter 'Public'.
00000840.00000b08::2007/08/06-16:58:28.638 INFO Network
Name: time until
next DNS reg: 2007/08/06-22:17:35 (128309122556769715)

Any help will be greatly appretiated.





















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Relevant Pages

  • Re: Long failover time...
    ... MVP - Windows Server - Clustering ... I was explicitly stating that the cluster comm was NOT used just for the hearbeat. ... The routing stack in the host uses it in the following order: lmhosts, hosts, dns and wins. ... is it finds the host IP in the hosts file and no network requests are required. ...
    (microsoft.public.windows.server.clustering)
  • Re: Long failover time...
    ... MVP - Windows Server - Clustering ... http://www.clusterhelp.com - Cluster Training ... The routing stack in the host uses it in the following order: lmhosts, hosts, dns and wins. ... is it finds the host IP in the hosts file and no network requests are required. ...
    (microsoft.public.windows.server.clustering)
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