Re: Use my original COA ( CD-KEY) in my Toshiba laptop

Jaime,

For two or three months, I ran Vista RC1 Ultimate with Aero and all the
fancy features on this same computer that came with MCE2005. From memory,
the only errors that I ever experienced were related to Unavailable Vista
Hardware Drivers, some reported Third-Party Software Incompatibilities which
actualy didn't seem to cause any problems, and a few hiccoughs with IE and a
Beta OneCare Live. My BSOD went away, and unlike MCE, my System never Froze.

Therefore, I can reasonably deduce that the Faults and Errors under MCE2005
have little to do with my Hardware. It is all in the Operating System. I
think you are wrong to suggest that my problems are germane to my System.

If there is something peculiar about my System, then the fault lies with the
Windows Hardware Certification System (whatever it's called... WHQL Testing,
Logo Schemes, etc) I assumed that something is either Compatible (i. e.
works properly) or it isn't. Perhaps someone might have taken a leaf out of
George Orwell's 'Animal Farm':
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."


"AllanF" <not.known@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:OJ$QkWYfHHA.2408@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Jaime,

Still going... :) I understand what you are saying.

The point that I am trying to make is that I am not particularly concerned
about Customer Support... I quickly learned to live without it after the
terms of my License were pointed out to me by Microsoft. But, without
this Support, you need the Functionality of the OS Installation Discs, and
these are not provided in order to cut costs by MS and the Manufacturers.
(You mentioned Dell, but I cannot find any reference to them providing the
full OS Installation Discs for XP MCE with any of their computers. If they
do provide those Discs, then they are the exception.)

Most of my experience has been with a Mac. I assume that Apple has
Telephone Support, but throughout the six or seven years of running the
Mac, I never even thought about looking up the phone number.

Now this thing called Media Center Edition is a different kettle of fish.
Don't tell me you have never experienced what would appear to the average
reasonable person as an Obscure, Absurd or Meaningless Error Message when
performing a task that MS describes as routine. For example, read the
hundreds of enquiries on the Web Forums about burning DVDs from within the
Media center interface. Have a look at XBox.com about connecting your XBox
to run Media Center on the TV. Sometimes these things just don't work.
Welcome to the World of Windows!

Under these circumstances, the option to pay for Support from the Creators
of this horrid OS does seem a reasonable Option. In fact, MS should feel a
moral obligation to either provide Technical Support to its Customers, or
divert that part of its Budget toward Training and Employing more
Competent OS Designers and Programmers so that the need for Customer
Support becomes a little more redundant.

Back to my main "beef": A lot of these Weird and Unexpected Errors are
described in the MS Knowledge Base. Sure, most are for XP, totally
ignoring MCE, but they describe the exact-same Error and Symptoms. Get to
the part were it says simply insert your OS Disc, and forget it....
Reinstalling from the Recovery Disc is the only option, then spend the
next three days downloading, installing, configuring, etc. What might have
taken half an hour with the OS Discs.

Meanwhile, Luiz, the OP is wondering how he might go about Partitioning
his HardDisk. I guess the only option is to go out and pay again for the
Exact-Same License as the one he paid for when he originally purchased his
Computer.


"Jaime" <nospamfor-jaimelobo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:O8N5dRXfHHA.1388@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Alan,

But again, what you seem to be ignoring, is that much of what you are
complaining about is only germane to *your* system. As I pointed out,
many MCE system are sold with OS CD's, so the user can do advanced
troubleshooting. So it really has nothing to do with some grand scheme,
only a scheme by the vendor of your system.

And BTW, this is not unique to MCE, this is same arrangement that exists
with any OEM copy of Windows - W2K, XP Home, XP Pro, whatever -- 6 or 8
years ago, people complained about recovery partitions on Windows 98
systems. It just boils down to simple economics, if you want the support,
you have to pay for it. Years ago this was the case, a basic PC with
1/100th of the power of a system today came with Windows 3.1 on it and
phone support from MS and a $2,500 price tag, in part because of the cost
of the OS. Now MS sells the OS much cheaper, which helps make the whole
system cheaper -- I really fail to see anything sinister about that. One
can hardly expect MS to give the same support for $30 in revenue that
they do for $300.
--
James
Orlando (Goofy says "Hey!"), FL

"AllanF" <not.known@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:%23N6td6RfHHA.4176@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Jaime,

Thanks. Your explanation is clear and informative.

Microsoft palmed off all Support Obligations for MCE onto the Computer
Manufacturers. Recovery Discs provide the Manufacturers with a quick fix
in all situations (apart from Hardware Failure) to return a machine to a
known operating state.... the minimum requirement for the contract for
sale. So neither MS nor the Manufacturer have any need for Trained
Technical Support Staff. A win for the MultiNationals.

Regarding Recovery Discs: All of that Functionality that is Disabled or
Removed would have been of enormous assistance to any Consumer realising
that they are in a Virtual Self-Help Situation. Without a Set of
Installation Discs, many TroubleShooting and Maintenance KB Articles
cannot be followed through to their conclusion. A loss for the Consumer.
Nothing new here.

"Jaime" <jaimelobo@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:e2ZxPwQfHHA.4872@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Allan,

I built my own system, so my costs were fairly low, my entire system
was around $600. When building your own system and buying an OEM copy
of MCE, you are buying the same license that any PC makers buys. The
difference in cost is merely a question of volume (buying a single OEM
copy and not the thousands that Dell might buy). In essence, you are
the builder and are assuming responsibility for support, MS has never
sold a "retail" version of XP MCE.

Even when going this route, you still are saving money; in the U.S. a
single OEM MCE license sells for around $120. Since there is no such
thing as a "retail" version of MCE to compare the price against, you
can contrast this price to a retail copy of XP Pro (around $300). Now
that Vista Home Premium is out, you could buy a retail copy and get
support for the Media Center features from MS or get Vista
pre-installed on an off-the-shelf system and get your support from the
PC maker. Although not exactly the same: if you buy a new Audi and it
comes with their pre-installed Blaupunkt sound system, you probably
can't call Blaupunkt for support, you have to go through Audi. The same
applies to original tires on a vehicle, the automaker assume
responsibility for the original set (and they get them at a deeply
discounted rate because of that arrangement).

What a manufacturer ultimately charges for their system is not driven
by the OS cost very much. Aside from the added cost of a tuner/remote
addition (and possibly beefed-up specs), the PC makers are simply
playing the supply and demand game when pricing their MCE system. In
fact, their OS cost is probably cheaper per copy of MCE than for XP Pro
(which is essentially the same OS).

I completely agree that you should get better support and options for
fixing problems (and that should come with any PC). The quality of tech
and other after-market support is something to consider when buy a PC
(or a car, cell phone, etc.). Again, my point is, this is beef with
your particular PC maker. If you buy a Dell PC, for example, with MCE
or whatever OS, you get an honest-to-goodness CD with the OS on it.
Granted, the COA is still tied to the Dell system and can't be used to
load Windows on another system (per the license), but you can stick it
in the CD drive, boot from it, do a full install, to a repair install,
use the recovery console, partition, expand individual files, etc. just
like it was right from MS. I also have cheapo E-Machine PC's here at
work that came with bootable Windows CD's that allow the same features.
Recovery partitions and all-or-nothing installation are not an absolute
with pre-built PC's, although more and more makers have gone this route
unfortunately.

I'm not necessarily defending MS or claiming they should not offer some
other/better route for help and support, I'm merely saying that the
situation you have run into is not endemic to all MCE systems or
mandated by MS.
--
James
Orlando (Goofy says "Hey!"), Florida



"AllanF" <not.known@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:OiK$oqPfHHA.1216@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Jaime,

I don't know how much you paid for your Media center PC if you have
one. Mine was the most expensive Laptop on the General Consumer Market
at the time. Over US$300 more than others with similar specs.
Admittedly, mine had a TV Tuner and IR Remote.

Are you trying to justify that none of the money I spent went towards
some form of Support? Apart from the lack of functionality such as
Slipstreaming, OS Repair, Partitioning, etc, Support seems to be the
principal difference. There was a One-Year Warranty from the Computer
Manufacturer which was pretty meaningless when all the faults were
OS-related and the only response was to Reinstall the OS from the
Recovery Disc.

AFAIK, there is no Support provided with the only other alternative,
the so-called OEM Version. So where is the difference in cost?


"Jaime" <nospamfor-jaimelobo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:uwKzBSPfHHA.5044@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Allan,

I did point out earlier that one key difference in Licenses is cost.
An OS license puchased with a pre-built PC is literally pennies on
the dollar compared to the $300 you might pay for a full a retail
copy. So why would you expect to have the same rights, that you would
with the retail copy.

Maybe if enough people felt that they would like a full license with
their new Dell or Sony or whatever, the manufacturers would make the
option available with their new PC, but I thnk very few people would
be willing to pay $100 more for their system.
--
James
Orlando (Goofy says "Hey!"), FL

"AllanF" <not.known@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:uWvlIQOfHHA.5052@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Hi Nigel,

The substantial difference in Licenses has not been pointed out. You
did respond to an earlier enquiry, but the OEM License must
accompany hardware (at least in theory)... no different to the EULA.
I assume that there must be a difference in terms, and I'm glad you
picked up on my rant. Perhaps you can point me in the direction of a
copy of the Licence issued separately that you mention. In my
searching, I've hit a few locks:
http://www.microsoft.com/oem/sblicense/Licensing_AntiPiracy.mspx



"Nigel Barker" <nigel@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news:gvpr13tc73cjepiifcffk9iel2vba4ptmr@xxxxxxxxxx
On Wed, 11 Apr 2007 11:27:55 +1000, "AllanF"
<not.known@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

It is disgraceful that MS and the
Manufacturer force you to pay for a Brand-New Licence, even though
you paid
for the Exact-Same Licence when you purchased the Media Center
Computer.

It's probably been pointed out by others but you did not buy the
'Exact-Same Licence' when you buy
the license with a computer as when you buy the license separately.
--

Cheers

Nigel Barker
Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur
MCE MVP
















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