Re: Microsoft, please, a solution for the STB!!!!!!!

Hi Mike,

I do understand your concern. I will pass your additional information on to
the product team members who make the decisions. While I'm not a programmer,
I do trust the information I get from the programmers who own this area. If
they say the effort is non-trivial I respect their findings. This does not
mean I don't probe for specifics. In the end I respect their call. If it was
merely a toggle bit, this would have been dispatched quickly. No developer
like bugs in their code if they can fix them, but not all bugs can get
fixed. Your statements of impact will be where I push for a fix but I can't
guarantee one. As for working, they do quite a lot of that. Idle people just
don't survive at MSFT :-). Promising fixes and then not delivering them
would be a disservice to this community, but I will pass along the info and
I promise if there is feedback I can share I will.

--
Ed Rich [MSFT]
edrich@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.





"Mike" <Mike@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:FDEB2301-1AEA-4CD5-B5E3-3094E4A6335A@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> It not just Terry with this concern (Hi Terry! still no luck then;) ), its
> the entire of the UK NTL population that either use the samsun 2100 stb
> and
> rest of the older NTL users that are due to be upgraded to the samsung
> 2100
> stb !!
>
> Quote : "Today, NTL has 3.3 million residential customers using over 6
> million services - Source : NTL
>
> Ive posted multiple threads regarding this issue over the last few months,
> and have had no response from Microsoft or from anyone that might be able
> to help, apart from Kalev and Terry ;) still no luck though....
>
> When you say, there not any plans in the near future to fix this issue,
> are you serious ? how does Microsoft expect to make even a slight dent in
> the Media center arena if you cant be "assed" to fix problems that
> prevents
> entire
> cable company STB's from changing channels ???? its simply not good
> enough.
>
> What are your developers doing all day ? surley this is not a complicated
> problem
> for them ? Please can someone at least explain why this isnt going to be
> fixed, or even if this issue will still exist in the new Windows Vista MCE
> ???????? god i hope not.
>
> MCE 2005 really is an excellent product so far and i would love to
> continue
> following this route, as it is a perfect solution for "easy" media in the
> home, but not being able to run TV over it is a nightmare and means once
> again the pc in the living room gets pushed further and further into the
> corner and not being used to the extent i would like it to ! :) If my
> house
> hold use it for TV (before this issue appeared) everyone used it
> continuously
> but now TV isnt working they hardly bother to use it even for playing
> music
> waching DVD's etc etc
>
> RE: "daunting task of dealing with dis-similar TV systems" er ? please...
> this is the toggle bit were talking about its quite a common technique in
> many media devices, in fact media center uses it itself!! why is it i cant
> learn/repeat these codes ?
>
> Ed, nothing personal mate, but this had driven me and a lot of others up
> the
> wall, and i thought id pounce while it looks like we have a little
> attention
> from microsoft.
> It seems you are in the right channels to kick up a fuss about this, and
> im
> sure you can see its well worth it for microsoft to fix this issue ASAP
> else
> no one in UK/spain/etc will be buying your "software" for use in the
> lounge :)
>
>
> Yours hopefully,
>
> Mike
>
>
> "Ed Rich [MSFT]" wrote:
>
>> Hi Terry,
>>
>> I will contact the Program Manager and let him know about your concerns.
>> Unfortuantely I can't promise that it will be fixed. Capturing the IR
>> codes
>> is not necessary. The IR codes are actually protected and cannot be
>> modifed.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ed Rich [MSFT]
>> edrich@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
>> rights.
>>
>>
>>
>> "Terry" <Terry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>> news:5174F2EF-6D79-46D6-948F-7C33214AAA92@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > Ed,
>> >
>> > Thanks for your reply!. Is there anything that we can do to help
>> > progress
>> > any fixes? For example If we can find some software for capturing the
>> > raw
>> > IR
>> > codes from the remote would it be useful to Microsoft?
>> >
>> > Also, if anyone can tell me the answer? When using the MCE to Learn
>> > remote codes, where do the IR Codes get stored? can I edit/view it?
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> >
>> > Terry
>> >
>> > "Ed Rich [MSFT]" wrote:
>> >
>> >> Terry,
>> >>
>> >> I'm sorry that you are in this situation. I confirmed that the Media
>> >> Center
>> >> team is aware of this issue. Unfortuately I cannot guarantee that it
>> >> will
>> >> be
>> >> fixed anytime soon.
>> >>
>> >> Kind Regards,
>> >>
>> >> Ed Rich
>> >> Program Manager
>> >> Windows eHome
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Ed Rich [MSFT]
>> >> edrich@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >>
>> >> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
>> >> rights.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> "Terry" <Terry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>> >> news:B2CB3BE9-4A91-4E58-AA6F-C7BF4BEA629D@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> > Ed,
>> >> >
>> >> > I have indeed looked at www.redremote.co.uk. I have also emailed
>> >> > them
>> >> > and
>> >> > the reply was
>> >> >
>> >> > This problem is due to a bug in MCE, and there is no fix for it at
>> >> > the
>> >> > moment. I can only suggest you pester your MCE supplier as MS are
>> >> > only
>> >> > likely
>> >> > to fix it of they get enough complaints.
>> >> >
>> >> > But thnks for pointing this out!
>> >> >
>> >> > "Ed Rich [MSFT]" wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> Hi Terry,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Have you looked at http://www.redremote.co.uk/mce.html
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> Ed Rich [MSFT]
>> >> >> edrich@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> >>
>> >> >> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
>> >> >> rights.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "Terry" <Terry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>> >> >> news:B68D7ECD-DDB8-4B92-AA71-A024EDB41159@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> >> > Ed,
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > I am having the same issue, with in the UK with NTL Samsung
>> >> >> > SMT-2100C.
>> >> >> > When two consecutive numbers are the same MCE doesn't change the
>> >> >> > channel.
>> >> >> > The only information I can find from Microsoft Knowledge base is
>> >> >> > due
>> >> >> > to
>> >> >> > a
>> >> >> > timing issue - I did try reg hacks but they were unsucessful.
>> >> >> > After
>> >> >> > much
>> >> >> > searching on the net I discovered that I am by no means the only
>> >> >> > person
>> >> >> > with
>> >> >> > this issue . It appears to be a toggle bit that is NOT sent from
>> >> >> > MCE
>> >> >> > IR
>> >> >> > Blaster. I configured the remote as NTL - C1060 this works of
>> >> >> > any
>> >> >> > number
>> >> >> > that is not repeated for exampl 51 will work but 55 will change
>> >> >> > to
>> >> >> > channel
>> >> >> > 5.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > I did also tried to use learning remote keys via MCE Setup
>> >> >> > however,
>> >> >> > when
>> >> >> > you
>> >> >> > press and Hold 0 the first time the system then asks you to
>> >> >> > confirm
>> >> >> > the
>> >> >> > key
>> >> >> > press by pressing again, this of course doesn't work as it sees a
>> >> >> > different
>> >> >> > code the next time around (due to the toggle bit). So you end
>> >> >> > up
>> >> >> > with
>> >> >> > MCE
>> >> >> > asking for you to press 0 again, and again and
>> >> >> > again..............
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > It would be great if Microsoft could sort this out, I understand
>> >> >> > that
>> >> >> > the
>> >> >> > issue is complex as there are many different boxes out there, but
>> >> >> > from
>> >> >> > our
>> >> >> > point of view we paid good money out and rightly expect it to
>> >> >> > work.
>> >> >> > Incidently, TIVO had the same issue and they have resolved it,
>> >> >> > and
>> >> >> > also
>> >> >> > a
>> >> >> > number of All in One Learning remotes have the same issue when
>> >> >> > dealing
>> >> >> > with
>> >> >> > these STBs, so it is not down to a timing issue and Microsoft are
>> >> >> > not
>> >> >> > the
>> >> >> > only ones that have the issue!
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Do you think it would be hard for Microsoft to change the MCE
>> >> >> > Learning
>> >> >> > to
>> >> >> > detect the toggle of the remote?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > "Ed Rich [MSFT]" wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> Your points are well taken. MCE 2005 only recently became
>> >> >> >> available
>> >> >> >> in
>> >> >> >> Spain. What you are seeing is the daunting task of dealing with
>> >> >> >> dis-similar
>> >> >> >> TV systems throughout the world. This is not me making excuses,
>> >> >> >> these
>> >> >> >> are
>> >> >> >> the problems that the Windows TV team face on a daily basis. We
>> >> >> >> (the
>> >> >> >> eHome
>> >> >> >> team) are working on making this better but it will take time.
>> >> >> >> Since
>> >> >> >> we
>> >> >> >> are
>> >> >> >> both a PC and a platform , we must design our product to work
>> >> >> >> for
>> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> broadest audience and don't have the advantage that a dedicated
>> >> >> >> STB
>> >> >> >> (read:
>> >> >> >> Closed System/BlackBox) has where each feature is discreetly
>> >> >> >> handled
>> >> >> >> in a
>> >> >> >> firmware chip or software. While I can't discuss forward looking
>> >> >> >> activities
>> >> >> >> of the team in detail, I can tell you that
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> 1) The team is aware of these issues intends to address them in
>> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> best
>> >> >> >> way
>> >> >> >> possible.
>> >> >> >> 2) Evolving an open platform for TV on a PC takes time. We have
>> >> >> >> been
>> >> >> >> releasing code every year for the last 4 years and each release
>> >> >> >> is
>> >> >> >> solving
>> >> >> >> more and more of the TV platform related issues.
>> >> >> >> 3) MCE was released to a total of 33 countries in 2005 (up from
>> >> >> >> 13
>> >> >> >> in
>> >> >> >> 2004)
>> >> >> >> based on the continual requests from customer and our local
>> >> >> >> Microsoft
>> >> >> >> subsidiaries on behalf of customers and partners. In order to
>> >> >> >> accommodate
>> >> >> >> this (also considering MCE is used for more than the TV
>> >> >> >> experience)
>> >> >> >> certain
>> >> >> >> tradeoffs had to be made to meet the schedule. TV features take
>> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> longest
>> >> >> >> to implement so the tradeoffs are more obvious to you the
>> >> >> >> customer/consumer.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> I am giving you honest answers within the constraints of my
>> >> >> >> being a
>> >> >> >> Microsoft employee. Feel free to ask any long time user of this
>> >> >> >> forum
>> >> >> >> about
>> >> >> >> the honesty/consistency of my responses.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> I hope you remain a fan and use of MCE while we continue to
>> >> >> >> evolve
>> >> >> >> it
>> >> >> >> and
>> >> >> >> solve those more complex issue in the TV space.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Regards,
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> --
>> >> >> >> Ed Rich [MSFT]
>> >> >> >> edrich@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers
>> >> >> >> no
>> >> >> >> rights.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> "Spanish Main" <SpanishMain@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
>> >> >> >> message
>> >> >> >> news:41128E09-E2A9-4A1F-969B-6935DDC1F356@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> >> >> >I thinks this is not a solution for all the places. Here in
>> >> >> >> >Spain,
>> >> >> >> >we
>> >> >> >> >can
>> >> >> >> > access to the payTV only for one way, satellite , and you need
>> >> >> >> > the
>> >> >> >> > subscription card from the company of the TV services... here
>> >> >> >> > you
>> >> >> >> > cant
>> >> >> >> > choose
>> >> >> >> > the STB... always is the same, the STB from the TV company...
>> >> >> >> > and
>> >> >> >> > here,
>> >> >> >> > in
>> >> >> >> > Spain all the systems have the same problem.. not me. And here
>> >> >> >> > it´s
>> >> >> >> > normal
>> >> >> >> > no
>> >> >> >> > get this kind of TV and Digital DVB-T... and the system can
>> >> >> >> > MIX
>> >> >> >> > this
>> >> >> >> > system... with two tuners....
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > A lot of problems here in Spain.... not work. And I sure this
>> >> >> >> > problem
>> >> >> >> > of
>> >> >> >> > the
>> >> >> >> > digits of the channels never get a solution here....
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > Sorry, but like always...
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > "Ed Rich [MSFT]" wrote:
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> Hi Spanish Main,
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> The ultimate solution is to not need a STB and go with a
>> >> >> >> >> closed
>> >> >> >> >> loop
>> >> >> >> >> system
>> >> >> >> >> such as a built-in cable card or a serial cable which some
>> >> >> >> >> STB's
>> >> >> >> >> support.
>> >> >> >> >> We are not there yet.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> In the mean time, the problem is two fold:
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> 1) Some STB's have IR sensors that are either overly
>> >> >> >> >> aggressive
>> >> >> >> >> or
>> >> >> >> >> are
>> >> >> >> >> poor
>> >> >> >> >> in design. They end up dropping digits thinking they are
>> >> >> >> >> repeats..
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> 2) The inherent nature of IR blasting (IR Repeating from the
>> >> >> >> >> MCE
>> >> >> >> >> box
>> >> >> >> >> to
>> >> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> >> STB) is that it is an open loop system so we cannot get
>> >> >> >> >> confirmation
>> >> >> >> >> from
>> >> >> >> >> the STB that the right channel was actually tuned and it is
>> >> >> >> >> also
>> >> >> >> >> subject
>> >> >> >> >> to
>> >> >> >> >> interference from other lighting sources such as flourescent
>> >> >> >> >> or
>> >> >> >> >> strong
>> >> >> >> >> sunlight.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> Most people can tweak the IR blaster setting in the registry
>> >> >> >> >> to
>> >> >> >> >> solve
>> >> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> >> digit dropping issue.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> Have you tried the new Tweak MCE (Requires Update Rollup 2
>> >> >> >> >> for
>> >> >> >> >> MCE
>> >> >> >> >> 2005).
>> >> >> >> >> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=3400190A-511A-4A3A-9B89-524511A76F58&displaylang=en#instructions
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> Overview: Tweak MCE gives you access to systems settings and


.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Microsoft, please, a solution for the STB!!!!!!!
    ... Your statements of impact will be where I push for a fix but I ... and have had no response from Microsoft or from anyone that might be ... MCE 2005 really is an excellent product so far and i would love to ... learn/repeat these codes? ...
    (microsoft.public.windows.mediacenter)
  • Re: Microsoft, please, a solution for the STB!!!!!!!
    ... While I'm not a programmer, ... Your statements of impact will be where I push for a fix but I can't ... >> and have had no response from Microsoft or from anyone that might be able ... >> learn/repeat these codes? ...
    (microsoft.public.windows.mediacenter)
  • Re: Microsoft, please, a solution for the STB!!!!!!!
    ... and have had no response from Microsoft or from anyone that might be able ... apart from Kalev and Terry;) still no luck though.... ... the Media center arena if you cant be "assed" to fix problems that prevents ... Capturing the IR codes ...
    (microsoft.public.windows.mediacenter)
  • Re: Microsoft, please, a solution for the STB!!!!!!!
    ... and have had no response from Microsoft or from anyone that might be able ... apart from Kalev and Terry;) still no luck though.... ... the Media center arena if you cant be "assed" to fix problems that prevents ... Capturing the IR codes ...
    (microsoft.public.windows.mediacenter)
  • Re: Microsoft, please, a solution for the STB!!!!!!!
    ... When using the MCE to Learn ... remote codes, where do the IR Codes get stored? ... Terry ... >> to fix it of they get enough complaints. ...
    (microsoft.public.windows.mediacenter)