Re: Microsoft, please, a solution for the STB!!!!!!!

It not just Terry with this concern (Hi Terry! still no luck then;) ), its
the entire of the UK NTL population that either use the samsun 2100 stb and
rest of the older NTL users that are due to be upgraded to the samsung 2100
stb !!

Quote : "Today, NTL has 3.3 million residential customers using over 6
million services - Source : NTL

Ive posted multiple threads regarding this issue over the last few months,
and have had no response from Microsoft or from anyone that might be able
to help, apart from Kalev and Terry ;) still no luck though....

When you say, there not any plans in the near future to fix this issue,
are you serious ? how does Microsoft expect to make even a slight dent in
the Media center arena if you cant be "assed" to fix problems that prevents
entire
cable company STB's from changing channels ???? its simply not good enough.

What are your developers doing all day ? surley this is not a complicated
problem
for them ? Please can someone at least explain why this isnt going to be
fixed, or even if this issue will still exist in the new Windows Vista MCE
???????? god i hope not.

MCE 2005 really is an excellent product so far and i would love to continue
following this route, as it is a perfect solution for "easy" media in the
home, but not being able to run TV over it is a nightmare and means once
again the pc in the living room gets pushed further and further into the
corner and not being used to the extent i would like it to ! :) If my house
hold use it for TV (before this issue appeared) everyone used it continuously
but now TV isnt working they hardly bother to use it even for playing music
waching DVD's etc etc

RE: "daunting task of dealing with dis-similar TV systems" er ? please...
this is the toggle bit were talking about its quite a common technique in
many media devices, in fact media center uses it itself!! why is it i cant
learn/repeat these codes ?

Ed, nothing personal mate, but this had driven me and a lot of others up the
wall, and i thought id pounce while it looks like we have a little attention
from microsoft.
It seems you are in the right channels to kick up a fuss about this, and im
sure you can see its well worth it for microsoft to fix this issue ASAP else
no one in UK/spain/etc will be buying your "software" for use in the lounge :)


Yours hopefully,

Mike


"Ed Rich [MSFT]" wrote:

> Hi Terry,
>
> I will contact the Program Manager and let him know about your concerns.
> Unfortuantely I can't promise that it will be fixed. Capturing the IR codes
> is not necessary. The IR codes are actually protected and cannot be modifed.
>
>
> --
> Ed Rich [MSFT]
> edrich@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
>
>
>
> "Terry" <Terry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:5174F2EF-6D79-46D6-948F-7C33214AAA92@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Ed,
> >
> > Thanks for your reply!. Is there anything that we can do to help progress
> > any fixes? For example If we can find some software for capturing the raw
> > IR
> > codes from the remote would it be useful to Microsoft?
> >
> > Also, if anyone can tell me the answer? When using the MCE to Learn
> > remote codes, where do the IR Codes get stored? can I edit/view it?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Terry
> >
> > "Ed Rich [MSFT]" wrote:
> >
> >> Terry,
> >>
> >> I'm sorry that you are in this situation. I confirmed that the Media
> >> Center
> >> team is aware of this issue. Unfortuately I cannot guarantee that it will
> >> be
> >> fixed anytime soon.
> >>
> >> Kind Regards,
> >>
> >> Ed Rich
> >> Program Manager
> >> Windows eHome
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Ed Rich [MSFT]
> >> edrich@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>
> >> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
> >> rights.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> "Terry" <Terry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> >> news:B2CB3BE9-4A91-4E58-AA6F-C7BF4BEA629D@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > Ed,
> >> >
> >> > I have indeed looked at www.redremote.co.uk. I have also emailed them
> >> > and
> >> > the reply was
> >> >
> >> > This problem is due to a bug in MCE, and there is no fix for it at the
> >> > moment. I can only suggest you pester your MCE supplier as MS are only
> >> > likely
> >> > to fix it of they get enough complaints.
> >> >
> >> > But thnks for pointing this out!
> >> >
> >> > "Ed Rich [MSFT]" wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Hi Terry,
> >> >>
> >> >> Have you looked at http://www.redremote.co.uk/mce.html
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Ed Rich [MSFT]
> >> >> edrich@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >>
> >> >> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
> >> >> rights.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> "Terry" <Terry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> >> >> news:B68D7ECD-DDB8-4B92-AA71-A024EDB41159@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> > Ed,
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I am having the same issue, with in the UK with NTL Samsung
> >> >> > SMT-2100C.
> >> >> > When two consecutive numbers are the same MCE doesn't change the
> >> >> > channel.
> >> >> > The only information I can find from Microsoft Knowledge base is due
> >> >> > to
> >> >> > a
> >> >> > timing issue - I did try reg hacks but they were unsucessful. After
> >> >> > much
> >> >> > searching on the net I discovered that I am by no means the only
> >> >> > person
> >> >> > with
> >> >> > this issue . It appears to be a toggle bit that is NOT sent from
> >> >> > MCE
> >> >> > IR
> >> >> > Blaster. I configured the remote as NTL - C1060 this works of any
> >> >> > number
> >> >> > that is not repeated for exampl 51 will work but 55 will change to
> >> >> > channel
> >> >> > 5.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I did also tried to use learning remote keys via MCE Setup however,
> >> >> > when
> >> >> > you
> >> >> > press and Hold 0 the first time the system then asks you to confirm
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > key
> >> >> > press by pressing again, this of course doesn't work as it sees a
> >> >> > different
> >> >> > code the next time around (due to the toggle bit). So you end up
> >> >> > with
> >> >> > MCE
> >> >> > asking for you to press 0 again, and again and again..............
> >> >> >
> >> >> > It would be great if Microsoft could sort this out, I understand
> >> >> > that
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > issue is complex as there are many different boxes out there, but
> >> >> > from
> >> >> > our
> >> >> > point of view we paid good money out and rightly expect it to work.
> >> >> > Incidently, TIVO had the same issue and they have resolved it, and
> >> >> > also
> >> >> > a
> >> >> > number of All in One Learning remotes have the same issue when
> >> >> > dealing
> >> >> > with
> >> >> > these STBs, so it is not down to a timing issue and Microsoft are
> >> >> > not
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > only ones that have the issue!
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Do you think it would be hard for Microsoft to change the MCE
> >> >> > Learning
> >> >> > to
> >> >> > detect the toggle of the remote?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > "Ed Rich [MSFT]" wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> Your points are well taken. MCE 2005 only recently became available
> >> >> >> in
> >> >> >> Spain. What you are seeing is the daunting task of dealing with
> >> >> >> dis-similar
> >> >> >> TV systems throughout the world. This is not me making excuses,
> >> >> >> these
> >> >> >> are
> >> >> >> the problems that the Windows TV team face on a daily basis. We
> >> >> >> (the
> >> >> >> eHome
> >> >> >> team) are working on making this better but it will take time.
> >> >> >> Since
> >> >> >> we
> >> >> >> are
> >> >> >> both a PC and a platform , we must design our product to work for
> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> broadest audience and don't have the advantage that a dedicated STB
> >> >> >> (read:
> >> >> >> Closed System/BlackBox) has where each feature is discreetly
> >> >> >> handled
> >> >> >> in a
> >> >> >> firmware chip or software. While I can't discuss forward looking
> >> >> >> activities
> >> >> >> of the team in detail, I can tell you that
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> 1) The team is aware of these issues intends to address them in the
> >> >> >> best
> >> >> >> way
> >> >> >> possible.
> >> >> >> 2) Evolving an open platform for TV on a PC takes time. We have
> >> >> >> been
> >> >> >> releasing code every year for the last 4 years and each release is
> >> >> >> solving
> >> >> >> more and more of the TV platform related issues.
> >> >> >> 3) MCE was released to a total of 33 countries in 2005 (up from 13
> >> >> >> in
> >> >> >> 2004)
> >> >> >> based on the continual requests from customer and our local
> >> >> >> Microsoft
> >> >> >> subsidiaries on behalf of customers and partners. In order to
> >> >> >> accommodate
> >> >> >> this (also considering MCE is used for more than the TV experience)
> >> >> >> certain
> >> >> >> tradeoffs had to be made to meet the schedule. TV features take the
> >> >> >> longest
> >> >> >> to implement so the tradeoffs are more obvious to you the
> >> >> >> customer/consumer.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> I am giving you honest answers within the constraints of my being a
> >> >> >> Microsoft employee. Feel free to ask any long time user of this
> >> >> >> forum
> >> >> >> about
> >> >> >> the honesty/consistency of my responses.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> I hope you remain a fan and use of MCE while we continue to evolve
> >> >> >> it
> >> >> >> and
> >> >> >> solve those more complex issue in the TV space.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Regards,
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> --
> >> >> >> Ed Rich [MSFT]
> >> >> >> edrich@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
> >> >> >> rights.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> "Spanish Main" <SpanishMain@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
> >> >> >> message
> >> >> >> news:41128E09-E2A9-4A1F-969B-6935DDC1F356@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> >> >I thinks this is not a solution for all the places. Here in Spain,
> >> >> >> >we
> >> >> >> >can
> >> >> >> > access to the payTV only for one way, satellite , and you need
> >> >> >> > the
> >> >> >> > subscription card from the company of the TV services... here you
> >> >> >> > cant
> >> >> >> > choose
> >> >> >> > the STB... always is the same, the STB from the TV company...
> >> >> >> > and
> >> >> >> > here,
> >> >> >> > in
> >> >> >> > Spain all the systems have the same problem.. not me. And here
> >> >> >> > it´s
> >> >> >> > normal
> >> >> >> > no
> >> >> >> > get this kind of TV and Digital DVB-T... and the system can MIX
> >> >> >> > this
> >> >> >> > system... with two tuners....
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > A lot of problems here in Spain.... not work. And I sure this
> >> >> >> > problem
> >> >> >> > of
> >> >> >> > the
> >> >> >> > digits of the channels never get a solution here....
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Sorry, but like always...
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > "Ed Rich [MSFT]" wrote:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> Hi Spanish Main,
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> The ultimate solution is to not need a STB and go with a closed
> >> >> >> >> loop
> >> >> >> >> system
> >> >> >> >> such as a built-in cable card or a serial cable which some STB's
> >> >> >> >> support.
> >> >> >> >> We are not there yet.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> In the mean time, the problem is two fold:
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> 1) Some STB's have IR sensors that are either overly aggressive
> >> >> >> >> or
> >> >> >> >> are
> >> >> >> >> poor
> >> >> >> >> in design. They end up dropping digits thinking they are
> >> >> >> >> repeats..
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> 2) The inherent nature of IR blasting (IR Repeating from the MCE
> >> >> >> >> box
> >> >> >> >> to
> >> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> >> STB) is that it is an open loop system so we cannot get
> >> >> >> >> confirmation
> >> >> >> >> from
> >> >> >> >> the STB that the right channel was actually tuned and it is also
> >> >> >> >> subject
> >> >> >> >> to
> >> >> >> >> interference from other lighting sources such as flourescent or
> >> >> >> >> strong
> >> >> >> >> sunlight.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> Most people can tweak the IR blaster setting in the registry to
> >> >> >> >> solve
> >> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> >> digit dropping issue.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> Have you tried the new Tweak MCE (Requires Update Rollup 2 for
> >> >> >> >> MCE
> >> >> >> >> 2005).
> >> >> >> >> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=3400190A-511A-4A3A-9B89-524511A76F58&displaylang=en#instructions
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> Overview: Tweak MCE gives you access to systems settings and
.

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