Re: MCE 2005 Xbox 360 Extender PC Setup Cannot find Xbox 360 on Ne

FWIW, the only Network Service I have enabled is the "Internet Gateway
Device Discovery and Control Client". In my experience, the rest of them
aren't needed.

However (again, in my experience, after running into issues with the MS
MN-700 router, which I've long dumped), if you have the UPnP User Interface
installed, if you remove that on its own (without removing the Internet
Gateway Device Discovery and Control Client), the Internet Gateway Device
Discovery and Control
Client gets broken. The only way to properly get the Internet Gateway
Device Discovery and Control
Client working again is to remove both UPnP user Interface, and Internet
Gateway Device Discovery and Control Client, reboot when it tells you to,
and then install only the Internet Gateway Device Discovery and Control
Client.

To simplify the troubleshooting for now, I'd recommend completely
uninstalling F-Secure, and only use the Windows Firewall. The install
program for the extender on the pc side knows exactly how to configure the
exceptions for that firewall so that it should allow for communications with
the xbox 360. I would also recommend you try it wired for now, and then
once you get it working that way, to re-introduce the wireless parts of the
setup back into the equation. Keep it simple, get it working, then
re-introduce the more 'unique' aspects of your setup back into the equation.
Once we get a known working state, we can then find out what is breaking it.

--
Jason Tsang - Microsoft MVP

Find out about the MS MVP Program -
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/default.aspx

"Code Munky" <chris.mckinleyATbigfootDOTCOM> wrote in message
news:1E5A6C6C-AE6C-476D-B4CF-A539292443E7@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Hi Todd,
>
> *** OK answers to questions first...
>
> 1) I am using F-Secure and my Windows Firewall is normally off. But I
> have
> also tried every other combination too to get this to work and was just
> letting Jason know that I do have the UPnP Framework ticked in the
> exceptions
> tab.
>
> 2) When I disabled F-Secure I right-clicked the F-Secure tray icon and
> selected 'Unload and allow all network traffic'. Just to make sure I also
> wen into Services and made sure every F-Secure service was actually
> stopped.
>
> 3) I've dumped the winsock services below, but they all seem to be
> Microsoft
> DLL's.
>
> 4) I have never seen a ballon appear in the task tray saying an Xbox has
> been found. I do obviously get the Mdeia connect ballon saying File
> sharing
> is enabled though.
>
>
> *** I have aso tried a few more things myself and thought I'd share the
> results...
>
> As you know, my theroy at the moment is that UPnP/SSDP isn't working quite
> as it should be. So I've been investigating that angle. Although both
> services are running (UPnP and SSDP) I wanted to check they were installed
> correctly. I therefore went into Add/Remove Windows Components through
> control panel, selected Network Services. I noticed UPnP User Interface
> was
> already installed and I THINK 'Internet Gateway Device Discovery and
> Control
> Client' was installed but I can't be 100% sure. Anyway, I unticked all
> boxes
> and uninstalled everything. Rebooted, then went back in and ticked all
> Network Services (Intenet Gateway, Peer-toPeer, RIP Listener, Simple TCP.
> IP
> Services, UPnP User Interface) and re-installed them all and rebooted.
>
> This had a number of errects. Firstly when I booted up I had a new icon
> in
> my tray called 'Internet Connection' if I double clicked it it showed the
> byte-count of activity on my network. If I clicked 'Advanced' button,
> there
> was a ticked entry in the list called 'scvhost (192.168.1.101:1085) 61637
> UDP'. I'm not sure what this if for but when I run PacketMon after
> starting
> up there seems to bea lot of network activity. Afetr 5 minutes or so the
> Network Connection icon disappears from ym tray and the network activity
> stops (other than those three SSDP Discovery messages being pumped out by
> the
> Xbox 360 every few seconds.
>
> Anyway an even more interesting thing happened....
>
> I checked my registry and low and behold, for the first time ever, I had a
> key under
> HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\MediaCenterPeripheral\DeviceTable.
> I have dumped the key out below for you to see.
>
> I thought that my problem was solved and reinstalled the the 360 setup.
> This time after putting in the 8-digit code the setup seemed to find these
> new entries in the registry and then said Verifying Setup Code (or
> something
> like that), then it comes up with a slightly different message than before
> 'Xbox 360 Cannot Be Contacted' in big font, then in smaller font
> underneath
> 'Setup is unable to contact Xbox 360'. I checked the DvcConn.log and had a
> new error in it:
>
> 21:44:35 : Security Code: 4573-3505
> 21:44:35 : Searching device table for unaffiliated bobsleds.
> 21:44:35 : Found 1 matching device(s).
> 21:44:35 : Found a device matching the security code. DVCID =
> {00000000-0000-0000-0200-00125A4B306F}
> 21:44:36 : Sanity Check : Making sure device is not already affiliated
> with
> this PC.
> 21:44:36 : Starting affiliation.
> ***********************************************************
> ERROR
> ***********************************************************
> Timed out waiting for affiliation status.
>
> I get this every time I run Setup now. I had noticed in other posts you'd
> sudgested deleting the DeviceTable entries and trying again. I thought
> I'd
> give that a try, but after deleting the key, it would appear that my Xbox
> 360
> doesn't get 'discovered' again and the key never goes back into the
> registry
> and Setup gives my the original error about 'An Xbox 360 cannot be found
> on
> the network' (which to me means cannot find the key in the registry).
> Luckily I exported the DeviceTable key before deleting it so I can but it
> back and remove it as I please. Each time I do that the Setup toggles
> between the two different errors.
>
> Sorry for such a long post, but I wanted you to have all information. It
> would seem whatever I installed in the components tab kicked the SSDP
> service
> into recognising the Xbox for the first time. Howvere I'm not sure why the
> setup then fails. Right now my PC is in the state where the DeviceTable
> key
> has been removed and the Xbox 360 is sending out the set of 3 SSDP
> broadcast
> messages. But my PC is rfusing to repsond to them.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Chis.
>
> P.S. My DeviceTable key and winsock dump are below:
>
> ************
> REGISTRY DUMP
> ************
>
> Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00
> [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\MediaCenterPeripheral\DeviceTable\{00000000-0000-0000-0200-00125A4B306F}]
> "FDvcId"=""
> "DvcFN"="Xbox 360"
> "HostID"=hex:
> "HostFN"=""
> "ProdName"="Xbox 360"
> "VendorID"=dword:0000045e
> "ProdID"=dword:00000002
> "HWVer"=dword:000000c8
> "SWVer"=dword:00000002
> "Lang"="EN-US"
> "LastCommTS"="38723.8"
> "AffStatus"=dword:00000000
> "VisStatus"=dword:00000000
> "AffCode"=dword:00000000
> "TrustCode"=dword:00000000
> "OutboundNIC"=hex:
> "KeyExchStatus"=dword:00000000
> "ScrnSaveSecs"=dword:000004b0
> "LogonDelayMs"=dword:000007d0
> "DvcPubKey"=hex:
> "TrustSecret"=hex:
> "RDPPort"=dword:00000d3e
> "StartExe"=""
> "StartExePath"=""
> "StaticIPAddr"=hex:
> "UIHostRedirIP"=hex:
> "DvcUserAcct"=""
> "LogonKey"=hex:
> "LogonCreds"=hex:
> "PcDiscnActn"=dword:00000005
> "NetworkBandwidth"=dword:00000000
> "SDN"=dword:00000001
> "HDN"=dword:00000001
> "MyPicturesPath"=""
> "MyVideosPath"=""
> "MusicLibraryPath"=""
> "FirmwareVer"="2241.0"
> "DeviceType"="X02"
> "ManufacturerName"="Microsoft"
> "DvcAffCode"=dword:0000015e
>
> ************
> WINSOCK DUMP
> ************
>
> Helper GUID DLL Filename Command
> -------------------------------------- ------------ -------
> {00770721-44EA-11D5-93BA-00B0D022DD1F} HNETMON.DLL bridge
> {CC41B21B-8040-4BB0-AC2A-820623160940} DGNET.DLL diag
> {8B3A0D7F-1F30-4402-B753-C4B2C7607C97} FWCFG.DLL firewall
> {0705ECA1-7AAC-11D2-89DC-006008B0E5B9} IFMON.DLL interface
> {89D00931-1E00-11D3-8738-00600837C775} IFMON.DLL ip
> {05BB0FE9-8D89-48DE-B7BB-9F138B2E950C} IPV6MON.DLL ipv6
> {F1EFA7E5-7169-4EC0-A63A-9B22A743E19C} IPV6MON.DLL 6to4
> {F1EFA7E5-7169-4EC0-A63A-9B22A743E19C} IPV6MON.DLL isatap
> {86A3A33F-4D51-47FF-B24C-8E9B13CEB3A2} IPV6MON.DLL portproxy
> {B7BE4347-E851-4EEC-BC65-B0C0E87B86E3} P2PNETSH.DLL p2p
> {E35A9D1F-61E8-4CF5-A46C-0F715A9303B8} P2PNETSH.DLL group
> {9AA625FC-7E31-4679-B5B5-DFC67A3510AB} P2PNETSH.DLL db
> {FBFC037E-D455-4B8D-80A5-B379002DBCAD} P2PNETSH.DLL idmgr
> {9E0D63D6-4644-476B-9DAC-D64F96E01376} P2PNETSH.DLL pnrp
> {1DD4935A-E587-4D16-AE27-14E40385AB12} P2PNETSH.DLL cloud
> {AD1D76C9-434B-48E0-9D2C-31FA93D9635A} P2PNETSH.DLL diag
> {6EC05238-F6A3-4801-967A-5C9D6F6CAC50} P2PNETSH.DLL peer
> {0705ECA2-7AAC-11D2-89DC-006008B0E5B9} RASMONTR.DLL ras
> {42E3CC21-098C-11D3-8C4D-00104BCA495B} RASMONTR.DLL aaaa
> {E0C5D007-D34C-11D2-9B76-00104BCA495B} RASMONTR.DLL appletalk
> {13D12A78-D0FB-11D2-9B76-00104BCA495B} RASMONTR.DLL ip
> {6FB90155-D324-11D2-9B76-00104BCA495B} RASMONTR.DLL ipx
> {69F21BC3-D349-11D2-9B76-00104BCA495B} RASMONTR.DLL netbeui
> {65EC23C0-D1B9-11D2-89E4-006008B0E5B9} IPMONTR.DLL routing
> {0705ECA0-7AAC-11D2-89DC-006008B0E5B9} IPMONTR.DLL ip
> {0705ECA3-7AAC-11D2-89DC-006008B0E5B9} IPPROMON.DLL autodhcp
> {0705ECA3-7AAC-11D2-89DC-006008B0E5B9} IPPROMON.DLL dnsproxy
> {0705ECA3-7AAC-11D2-89DC-006008B0E5B9} IPPROMON.DLL igmp
> {0705ECA3-7AAC-11D2-89DC-006008B0E5B9} IPPROMON.DLL nat
> {0705ECA3-7AAC-11D2-89DC-006008B0E5B9} IPPROMON.DLL ospf
> {0705ECA3-7AAC-11D2-89DC-006008B0E5B9} IPPROMON.DLL relay
> {0705ECA3-7AAC-11D2-89DC-006008B0E5B9} IPPROMON.DLL rip
> {0705ECA3-7AAC-11D2-89DC-006008B0E5B9} IPPROMON.DLL routerdiscovery
> {B1641451-84B8-11D2-B940-3078302C2030} IPXMONTR.DLL ipx
> {D3FCBA3A-A4E9-11D2-B944-00C04FC2AB1C} IPXPROMN.DLL netbios
> {D3FCBA3A-A4E9-11D2-B944-00C04FC2AB1C} IPXPROMN.DLL rip
> {D3FCBA3A-A4E9-11D2-B944-00C04FC2AB1C} IPXPROMN.DLL sap
> {B2C0EEF4-CCE5-4F55-934E-ABF60F3DCF56} IFMON.DLL winsock
> --
> Windows Media Center 2005 (Rollup 2)
> Xbox 360
> Linksys Wireless-G Network
>
>
> "Todd Bowra [MSFT]" wrote:
>
>> One more thing - have you ever received any balloon notifications in the
>> lower right corner of you screen informing you that an Xbox 360 has been
>> detected on your network and is ready to be configured?
>>
>> --
>> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
>> rights.
>>
>>
>> "Todd Bowra [MSFT]" <toddbow@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>> news:%23ofAYZvEGHA.312@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > I thought you were using the F-Secure firewall and had the Windows
>> Firewall
>> > set to off?
>> >
>> > Few more things to check:
>> > - Run Service.msc and verify that the Windows Firewall/Internet
>> > Connection
>> > Sharing service is Started (not Stopped/Disabled)
>> > - You mentioned earlier that had you tried running with no firewall;
>> > did
>> you
>> > have F-Secure uninstalled at that point, or were you running with it
>> > wide
>> > open/set to disabled?
>> > - If you have F-Secure set to wide open and it's not working, it's
>> possible
>> > that it installed a Winsock layered service provider that's not
>> > behaving
>> > correctly. From a command window, run "netsh" <enter>, "winsock"
>> > <enter>,
>> > "show helper" <enter>, then paste the output here (in particular, I'm
>> > curious whether there are any DLLs that belong to F-Secure...)
>> >
>> > --
>> > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
>> rights.
>> >
>> >
>> > "Code Munky" <chris.mckinleyATbigfootDOTCOM> wrote in message
>> > news:6149D366-F71C-49BA-BD58-2D63D17ED7BF@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > > Yup UPnP Framework is ticked in the Windows Firewall Exceptions tab.
>> > > --
>> > > Windows Media Center 2005 (Rollup 2)
>> > > Xbox 360
>> > > Linksys Wireless-G Network
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > "Jason Tsang" wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Also, just as a sanity check, make sure the UPnP Framework
>> > > > exception
>> in
>> > the
>> > > > Windows Firewall exception tab is enabled.
>> > > >
>> > > > --
>> > > > Jason Tsang - Microsoft MVP
>> > > >
>> > > > Find out about the MS MVP Program -
>> > > > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/default.aspx
>> > > >
>> > > > "Todd Bowra [MSFT]" <toddbow@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>> > > > news:u6V21RmEGHA.1816@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > > > > If PacketMon can see the traffic that suggests it's making it to
>> > > > > the
>> > PC
>> > > > > NIC;
>> > > > > it appears to be getting lost after that.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Couple more questions:
>> > > > > - What does your network look like? Specifically, what
>> > > > > routers/switches/wireless hardware/etc. is between your PC and
>> > > > > Xbox
>> > 360?
>> > > > > - Have you tried rebooting the Media Center PC? (always good to
>> check
>> > :-)
>> > > > >
>> > > > > --
>> > > > > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers
>> > > > > no
>> > > > > rights.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > "Code Munky" <chris.mckinleyATbigfootDOTCOM> wrote in message
>> > > > > news:58976B9A-AE98-4209-B4BF-C75CC8D3C285@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > > > >> Yes I ran it on my Media Center 2005 PC. Both services are
>> running.
>> > > > >> If I can see the packets on PacketMon does that mean they are
>> getting
>> > to
>> > > > > my
>> > > > >> PC, or simply wizzing over the network?
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> I'm sure it's UPnP not working right...
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> --
>> > > > >> Windows Media Center 2005 (Rollup 2)
>> > > > >> Xbox 360
>> > > > >> Linksys Wireless-G Network
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> "Todd Bowra [MSFT]" wrote:
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> > Confirming - did you run PacketMon on your Media Center PC?
>> > > > >> > If
>> so,
>> > > > >> > this
>> > > > >> > shows that the announcement traffic from the Xbox 360 is
>> > > > >> > reaching
>> > your
>> > > > > PC;
>> > > > >> > the question is why it's not being registered. Please run
>> > services.msc
>> > > > > and
>> > > > >> > check the status of the SSDP Discovery Service and the
>> > > > >> > Universal
>> > Plug
>> > > > > and
>> > > > >> > Play Device Host service (are they running?).
>> > > > >> >
>> > > > >> > --
>> > > > >> > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and
>> > > > >> > confers
>> no
>> > > > > rights.
>> > > > >> >
>> > > > >> >
>> > > > >> > "Code Munky" <chris.mckinleyATbigfootDOTCOM> wrote in message
>> > > > >> > news:4F3FE300-FDD9-4E42-856A-7B6CC452DA3C@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > > > >> > > Todd,
>> > > > >> > >
>> > > > >> > > Just thought I'd post a bit more information to go with my
>> > > > >> > > Log
>> > file
>> > > > > and
>> > > > >> > Reg
>> > > > >> > > dump.
>> > > > >> > >
>> > > > >> > > I've run a PacketMon on my PC and whilst the Xbox 360 is sat
>> > > > >> > > on
>> > the
>> > > > > Media
>> > > > >> > > Center Setup Screen it seems to be sending out a set of
>> > > > >> > > three
>> UDP
>> > > > > packets
>> > > > >> > > every three seconds or so.
>> > > > >> > >
>> > > > >> > > They look like they are UPnP broadcast messages (they have
>> > ssdp:alive
>> > > > > in
>> > > > >> > the
>> > > > >> > > packet body). I've included the header detail below.
>> > > > >> > >
>> > > > >> > > Do you think that the UPnP Service or the SSDP Service
>> > > > >> > > should
>> be
>> > > > >> > responding
>> > > > >> > > to these? And maybe putting somethign in the registry? I'm
>> > guessing
>> > > > > as I
>> > > > >> > > have limited knowledge of how UPnP works.
>> > > > >> > >
>> > > > >> > > Also, Packet mon shows no network packets comming from my PC
>> when
>> > the
>> > > > > Xbox
>> > > > >> > > 360 Setup is 'searching' for the Xbox on the network.
>> > > > >> > > That's
>> > making
>> > > > > me
>> > > > >> > think
>> > > > >> > > that the Setup is just looking in the MediaPeripherals
>> > > > >> > > registry
>> > key
>> > > > > for an
>> > > > >> > > entry that should have alreay been put there by somethign
>> > > > >> > > else.
>> > As
>> > > > >> > opposed
>> > > > >> > > to actually sending anything over the network at that point.
>> > > > >> > >
>> > > > >> > > What do you think?
>> > > > >> > >
>> > > > >> > > PacketMon Packet Headers...
>> > > > >> > >
>> > > > >> > > Protocol Source IP Source Port Dest IP
>> > > > >> > > Dets Port Size
>> > > > >> > > UDP 192.168.1.102 1085
>> > > > >> > > 239.255.255.250
>> > > > > 1900
>> > > > >> > > 243
>> > > > >> > > UDP 192.168.1.102 1086
>> > > > >> > > 239.255.255.250
>> > > > > 1900
>> > > > >> > > 666
>> > > > >> > > UDP 192.168.1.102 1087
>> > > > >> > > 239.255.255.250
>> > > > > 1900
>> > > > >> > > 666
>> > > > >> > > UDP 192.168.1.102 1088
>> > > > >> > > 239.255.255.250
>> > > > > 1900
>> > > > >> > > 243
>> > > > >> > > UDP 192.168.1.102 1089
>> > > > >> > > 239.255.255.250
>> > > > > 1900
>> > > > >> > > 666
>> > > > >> > > UDP 192.168.1.102 1090
>> > > > >> > > 239.255.255.250
>> > > > > 1900
>> > > > >> > > 666
>> > > > >> > >
>> > > > >> > > --
>> > > > >> > > Windows Media Center 2005 (Rollup 2)
>> > > > >> > > Xbox 360
>> > > > >> > > Linksys Wireless-G Network
>> > > > >> > >
>> > > > >> > >
>> > > > >> > > "Todd Bowra [MSFT]" wrote:
>> > > > >> > >
>> > > > >> > > > You are currently talking to someone at Microsoft on the
>> > Extender
>> > > > > team
>> > > > >> > :-)
>> > > > >> > > >
>> > > > >> > > > If you open regedit and navigate to
>> > > > >> > > >
>> > > > >
>> > HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\MediaCenterPeripheral\DeviceTable,
>> > > > >> > are
>> > > > >> > > > there any entries under DeviceTable? (they'd look like
>> > > > >> > > > "00000000-0000-0000-xxxx-xxxxxxxxx" where the x's are lots
>> > > > >> > > > of
>> > > > > letters
>> > > > >> > and
>> > > > >> > > > numbers). If there are no such entries, this indicates
>> > > > >> > > > that
>> > the
>> > > > > your PC
>> > > > >> > > > isn't receiving any announcements from the Extender
>> > > > >> > > > regarding
>> > its
>> > > > >> > presence
>> > > > >> > > > on the network. This is typically due to firewall issues,
>> > though I
>> > > > > have
>> > > > >> > > > seen one case in which it was due to the user's home
>> > router/switch
>> > > > >> > dropping
>> > > > >> > > > this traffic. A second possibility is that the MCX
>> > > > >> > > > software
>> is
>> > not
>> > > > >> > running
>> > > > >> > > > on the PC; in such cases, I would expect to see an error
>> > > > >> > > > in
>> the
>> > > > > install
>> > > > >> > log
>> > > > >> > > > reporting this. If when you check the registry you don't
>> > > > >> > > > see
>> > any
>> > > > >> > devices,
>> > > > >> > > > please bring up Task Manager and make note of which
>> > > > >> > > > mc*.exe
>> > > > > processes
>> > > > >> > are
>> > > > >> > > > running.
>> > > > >> > > >
>> > > > >> > > >
>> > > > >> > > > --
>> > > > >> > > > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and
>> > confers no
>> > > > >> > rights.
>> > > > >> > > >
>> > > > >> > > >
>> > > > >> > > > "Code Munky" <chris.mckinleyATbigfootDOTCOM> wrote in
>> > > > >> > > > message
>> > > > >> > > > news:CF463DB8-45F2-43C7-8C5A-0E06E6C7C9C3@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > > > >> > > > > Thank you very much for your replay.
>> > > > >> > > > >
>> > > > >> > > > > Just to further clarify what I have tried so far, and
>> > > > >> > > > > how I
>> > have
>> > > > > my
>> > > > >> > > > firewall
>> > > > >> > > > > configured:
>> > > > >> > > > >
>> > > > >> > > > > I am ruuning F-Secure internet security. I have opened
>> > > > >> > > > > ALL
>> > (0 -
>> > > > >> > 65535)
>> > > > >> > > > UDP
>> > > > >> > > > > ports on my local network (192.168.1.100 to
>> > > > >> > > > > 192.168.1.149).
>> > I
>> > > > > have
>> > > > >> > > > checked
>> > > > >> > > > > the the firewall logs when running the setup program and
>> > nothing
>> > > > > is
>> > > > >> > being
>> > > > >> > > > > blocked by F-Secure. Just to be sure I have unloaded
>> > F-Secure
>> > > > > (not
>> > > > >> > just
>> > > > >> > > > > disabled the firewall, but unloaded the program from
>> memory)
>> > and
>> > > > > tried
>> > > > >> > > > again
>> > > > >> > > > > with no success. I have also tried running setup with
>> > > > >> > > > > just
>> > the
>> > > > >> > Windows
>> > > > >> > > > > firewall running. Admitedly I haven't tried completely
>> > > > > uninstalling
>> > > > >> > > > F-Secure
>> > > > >> > > > > from my machine as I don't really want to have to
>> reconfigure
>> > all
>> > > > > the
>> > > > >> > > > > application rules etc when I reinstall it. I'm
>> > > > >> > > > > convinced
>> it
>> > is
>> > > > > NOT
>> > > > >> > the
>> > > > >> > > > > firewall blocking the setup. If you're absolutely sure
>> this
>> > is
>> > > > >> > > > > my
>> > > > >> > problem
>> > > > >> > > > I
>> > > > >> > > > > will uninstall F-Secure, but I personally don't belive
>> > > > >> > > > > this
>> > > > > problem is
>> > > > >> > > > > firewall related (despite seeing about 100 other post


.