Re: Xbox Mediacenter Extender Remote

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I guess another way to ask about the 'X' and 'Y' button remapping is from a
developer's standpoint. If we were writing a software-based remote control
for a PDA, what HID usage values would we need to send to make it look like
we are pressing one of the A, B, X, or Y buttons on the 360 remote?

=D-

"Derek R. Flickinger" <DrFlick@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
message news:ORoI1za9FHA.3208@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> 5) Does the Xbox in MCE eXtender mode support both VBR and CBR WMV videos
> equally as well? This seems to be in contrast to some of the earlier
> threads discussing problems people have had rendering certain videos. The
> bottom line, based on the original question about the differences of a
> PC-based MCE machine and the Xbox as an eXtender, is that there are some
> videos that play within a PC MCE UI that do not play on the Xbox in
> eXtender mode. Since you cannot change the eXtender environment, this
> creates a usability factor. Since many have shared content for MCE
> machines, the My Videos folder needs to be reorganized to separate those
> that do play from those that do not so the user does not get a blank
> screen or an error message saying that it cannot be played on the MCE. It
> will not make sense to them. I guess you are going to make us break down
> and figure out which ones don't work and why now <g>........
>
> 8) Yes, you can set the Xbox to dim the screen and to power itself down.
> However, the issue is having the Xbox put the display into low power mode.
> If the Xbox shuts off, the display still is on. One assumption would be
> that, using component cables, you probably cannot control the power
> savings features of the display anyhow. Switching to VGA still does not
> allow you to do it and since (for some unknown reason) the 360 does not
> have an option for DVI or HDMI, we cannot compare those. The reason this
> is important is that you must turn the display off manually, which means
> the power button on the remote has to be configured for the particular
> display. The other option is to find a display that will power itself
> down if there is no signal, but those are rare. Either way, it is a
> feature we leverage in the PC MCE world that works completely differently
> when using an eXtender, something we are trying to avoid.
>
> Which buttons remap to the X and Y, because (other than the eject DVD
> button) that is all that is missing from making the learning remote the
> ideal choice for both environments? You cannot bring up the Xbox keyboard
> interface Michael mentions without it. Therefore, the user has to get a
> different control device to perform one of the functions, which is what we
> are trying to avoid. Are these remapping documented somewhere? We know
> the usual "reference" documentation at
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnwmt/html/remote_control.asp
> has not been updated to reflect these.
>
> =D-
>
> "Todd Bowra [MSFT]" <toddbow@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:OpmfefX9FHA.1248@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> 1) When songs transition during music playback, the nice semi-transparent
>> cover art with track name will be displayed on screen, just like it is on
>> the PC
>>
>> 5) Xbox 360 supports playback of MPEG-1, MPEG-2, WMV 7, 8 & 9, and WMV
>> Image
>> 1 & 2 video content. AVI is a wrapper format that commonly contains
>> MPEG-4,
>> which is not supported on Xbox 360
>> 8) You can configure the Xbox to automatically turn itself off after a
>> period of inactivity
>>
>>
>>
>> The A, B, X, Y buttons are remapped to other functions while in Extender
>> mode (e.g. "Live TV"); these functions exist on "regular" Media Center
>> remotes as dedicated buttons
>>
>> --
>> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
>> rights.
>>
>>
>> "Derek R. Flickinger" <DrFlick@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
>> message news:%23EnZoDX9FHA.252@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Update on 4).
>>>
>>>
>> http://michaelcreasy.com/blog/index.php?title=text_entry_in_media_center_applications_&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1
>>>
>>> The Xbox 360 Premium includes (for a "limited" time) a remote control
>> which
>>> is smaller than the Universal Media Remote and doesn't include any
>>> number
>>> buttons. This makes text input to Media Center applications when using
>>> the
>>> Xbox 360 as an Extender rather difficult. Normally you'd use the number
>>> buttons to triple tap in text, but with no number buttons you can't do
>> that.
>>> The solution is to press the 'Y' button on a controller which will
>>> display
>>> an on-screen keyboard that you can use for text entry. Note that
>>> pressing
>>> the 'Y' button on the remote brings up the TV guide.
>>>
>>> -----------------
>>> Michael,
>>>
>>> Thanks for the tip. However, we cannot get the typing from that
>>> keyboard
>> to
>>> fill in the email address for logging in to MSN Music. What are we
>> missing?
>>>
>>> =D-
>>>
>>> "Derek R. Flickinger" <DrFlick@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
>>> message news:udnFA4W9FHA.2176@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> > We are sorry we were mixing in some of the remote functionality with
>>> > the
>>> > actual MCX features.
>>> >
>>> > 3) Use a "standard" MCE learning remote. Do not get the Xbox
>>> > Universal
>>> > Media Remote (UMR). The UMR ONLY has codes available for TVs. It
>>> > will
>>> > not control what you have (unless you happen to hit it lucky and have
>> the
>>> > same IR volume codes as a TV). If you use the learning remote and
>> program
>>> > the volume for your receiver, you will be okay (assuming your receiver
>> has
>>> > IR access from the remote). The audio subsystem within the MCE PC
>>> > works
>>> > differently for an eXtender. You cannot use the remote to control the
>>> > volume of the audio streams. Remember, the MCE remote also works the
>>> > 360's UI (and does a pretty nice job of it). The learning remote (or
>> the
>>> > original one) performs almost all of the functions as the UMR and the
>>> > 360's UI leverages the A and B buttons quite a bit. It just would be
>> nice
>>> > if the learning remote had two of the OEM keys available AND they
>>> > would
>>> > send the same values as the X and Y. The standard 360 Media Remote is
>> not
>>> > of much value to us.
>>> >
>>> > 4) Our issue is that we have not found a way to log into Microsoft's
>>> > own
>>> > MSN Music through the 360's MCE interface. We have tried
>>> > triple-tapping
>>> > on four different remotes, the MCE keyboard, and a USB keyboard to no
>>> > avail. Has anyone else been able to do this? We must be missing
>>> > something.
>>> >
>>> > 5) We have not spent the time isolating this one yet. We know we have
>>> > some videos that play okay on a variety of PC-based MCE boxes, but
>>> > they
>> do
>>> > not play from the 360. We think it is related to being variable bit
>> rate,
>>> > but have not checked it out yet. There are some other previous
>>> > threads
>>> > related to this.
>>> >
>>> > 7) The issue is that if you have to do any editing of the music
>>> > database
>>> > for the MCx user account through the 10' UI using the remote, it is a
>> time
>>> > consuming task - especially if you are used to typing corrections.
>>> > With
>> a
>>> > PC, you can minimize the MCE shell and do it with a keyboard and mouse
>>> > inside of Media Player. It definitely is a much more efficient way.
>>> > We
>>> > do believe you can copy the two specific library files from the
>> machine's
>>> > MCE account to the MCx user's profile, but something seems to have
>> changed
>>> > with RU 2. We cannot overwrite them or delete those files now -
>> something
>>> > is keeping them open. We appreciate any input on this because it is
>>> > another area we have not had a chance to track down yet.
>>> >
>>> > 8) We have a new "this also is different" to add. The 360 does not
>>> > support powering the display down, even if it is EnergyStar compliant.
>> If
>>> > you get the right kind of display and video connection, you can have
>>> > the
>>> > PC power it down after a period. The 360 will not do this, so you
>>> > manually have to turn it off. This means that you need to program the
>>> > remote for your display to allow the TV power button to turn off the
>>> > display. We are experimenting with leaving the 360 on, but the cool
>> part
>>> > is that we can turn it off if we want. We end up leaving the audio
>>> > receiver on (unless you take Barb's advice and use something like a
>> Pronto
>>> > or other universal remote and create macros to do it). The 360 is
>> pretty
>>> > quiet in MCX mode. As a side note, we wish you could disable the
>> ability
>>> > to power the PC-based MCE off using the remote because we want to
>>> > leave
>>> > them on all of the time and the user should not have to power it up
>> first.
>>> > We have not played with the new "instant on/off" features of RU 2 yet.
>>> >
>>> > I guess it is time to say that, overall, things work pretty well. We
>>> > simply are disappointed in some of the (lack of) usability features
>>> > between the limitations of the various remotes and the limitations of
>> the
>>> > MCE eXtender environment. What we are trying to do is develop a list
>> of
>>> > "best practices/products" for ourselves so we can present the
>>> > trade-offs
>>> > to our customers and we will know how to combine the right components
>> and
>>> > configure a system that works well based on their requirements. We
>>> > are
>>> > conveying our findings via this newsgroup in real time and reserve the
>>> > right to change our minds if we discover new information. We are open
>> to
>>> > input and are looking for help on resolving what we see as some open
>>> > issues. We also hope that the MS people reading this can use it as
>> input
>>> > on making future releases and products a little more cohesive across
>>> > the
>>> > product lines.
>>> >
>>> > =D-
>>> >
>>> > "RCMe" <rcme_1_nospam@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>>> > news:%23YaEnJW9FHA.3664@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> >> Thanks Todd and Derek,
>>> >>
>>> >> Some comments below...
>>> >>
>>> >>>> 1) music visualizations aren't supported (because they use the 3d
>>> >>>> rendering capabilities of the video card in the PC) and
>>> >>
>>> >> Ok. BTW, what is shown on the display while music is playing. Do the
>>> >> (MTV-like) song transition popups still work?
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>>> 2) streaming DVDs from Media Center to Xbox 360 isn't supported
>> (though
>>> >>>> you can off course put a DVD in the Xbox 360's DVD drive and watch
>>> >>>> it
>>> >>>> from there)
>>> >>
>>> >> That's fine. I don't watch DVDs on MCE now anyway, I have a separate
>> DVD
>>> >> player.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>>> 3) The way that the audio works is different, also. From an
>> eXtender,
>>> >>>> one does not have control of the volume being streamed from the PC
>>> >>>> so
>>> >>>> the volume becomes a bit of a mess if you do not use the "TV"
>>> >>>> audio.
>>> >>
>>> >> When you say "TV", do you mean "whatever audio device is connected to
>> the
>>> >> audio outputs of the Xbox 360"?
>>> >>
>>> >> I currently have a multi-channel surround sound amplifier that
>> functions
>>> >> as a central audio/video switch for all components. All audio and
>>> >> video
>>> >> sources go through the amplifier, and the TV is simply a video
>> "monitor"
>>> >> (no audio). I was expecting to connect digital audio from the Xbox
>>> >> 360
>>> >> (optical/coax) to the surround sound amplifier, as well as the Xbox
>>> >> 360
>>> >> video out. I currently have the MCE remote programmed to adjust the
>> audio
>>> >> volume on the surround sound amplifier, which I would hope should
>>> >> work
>>> >> the same with Xbox 360.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>>> 4) In addition, eXtenders do not support keyboards - either the MCE
>> one
>>> >>>> or the USB ones. We also have not been able to sign into MSN Music
>>> >>>> from Online Spotlight because the login "keyboard" entry does not
>>> >>>> function correctly.
>>> >>
>>> >> Ok. A keyboard would be nice, but I only use it now with MCE for the
>>> >> occasional reboot and for watching movie previews from Apple's
>> Quicktime
>>> >> website. I understand that watching Quicktime from the Xbox 360 will
>> not
>>> >> be possible (bummer as Apple now has some pretty sweet HD previews).
>>> >> I
>>> >> suppose I will have to see if there is a movie preview site through
>>> >> MCE
>>> >> online spotlight that has HD movie previews like the Apple QT site.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>>> 5) Some types of videos and MPEGs also do not play from within My
>>> >>>> Videos.
>>> >>
>>> >> Hmmm... Bummer about MPEGs. Is lack of MPEG support a short term
>>> >> limitation? Seems odd, since dvr-ms are supposed to be simply MPEGs
>>> >> wrapped in meta-data. What about "ripped" DVDs (aka .vob files)? We
>> have
>>> >> a lot of home videos processed into DVD format (menus and such) and
>>> >> stored on disk. When you say "some types of videos", is there a list
>>> >> somewhere? I really need to know if standard AVI files (basically
>>> >> straight DV captures from a camcorder) will play on Xbox 360
>>> >> (streamed
>>> >> from MCE via the extender interface?). Lack of AVI support would be a
>>> >> showstopper, since viewing AVIs through the MCE interface is an
>> important
>>> >> part of our MCE "experience".
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>>> 6) You cannot burn DVDs directly from the interface, but that is
>>> >>>> not
>> a
>>> >>>> show stopper.
>>> >>
>>> >> Ok. I agree, I have a separate computer that I use for processing DV
>>> >> video (editing, etc.), and use other (non-MCE) NLE programs when I
>>> >> need
>> a
>>> >> dvr-ms archived onto DVD.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>>> 7) Since one does not have direct access to the music library
>> database,
>>> >>>> it is a pain to delete duplicate entries which otherwise can be
>>> >>>> done
>>> >>>> using Media Player.
>>> >>
>>> >> Hmmm... I am not certain I understand this. Are you saying that one
>> needs
>>> >> to go to the MCE computer to update/change the music library? That's
>>> >> ok
>>> >> for me, since I have a copy of my MP3 library stored on the MCE
>> computer
>>> >> (need to have a copy since MCE insists on being able to modify the
>> music
>>> >> library), so I need to go to the MCE computer anyway for any MP3
>> library
>>> >> updates or changes, which come from the "master" read-only MP3
>>> >> library
>>> >> stored on the central server.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>>> As a side note, the 'OK' button seems to work well as a replacement
>> for
>>> >>>> the 'A' button and the 'Back" button seems to emulate the 'B'
>>> >>>> button
>>> >>>> pretty well.
>>> >>
>>> >> Does one need the 'A' and 'B' buttons for the MCX functions of the
>>> >> Xbox
>>> >> 360? Or are they used for Xbox 360 gaming in place of the Xbox 360
>> gaming
>>> >> controller?
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>>> What is nice is that the standard Power button on the MCE remote
>>> >>>> does
>>> >>>> turn the 360 on and off.
>>> >>
>>> >> Does one need to ever turn off the Xbox 360? Currently, when we leave
>> the
>>> >> HT room, we just turn off the surround sound amplifier and the TV.
>>> >> The
>>> >> MCE computer runs 24-7. Since in this particular case, the Xbox 360
>> would
>>> >> replace the MCE computer, I would expect the family would tend to
>> always
>>> >> forget to turn off the Xbox 360.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> "Derek R. Flickinger" <DrFlick@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote
>>> >> in
>>> >> message news:uBtqxWR9FHA.912@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> >>> Todd,
>>> >>>
>>> >>> 3) The way that the audio works is different, also. From an
>>> >>> eXtender,
>>> >>> one does not have control of the volume being streamed from the PC
>>> >>> so
>>> >>> the volume becomes a bit of a mess if you do not use the "TV" audio.
>>> >>> 4) In addition, eXtenders do not support keyboards - either the MCE
>> one
>>> >>> or the USB ones. We also have not been able to sign into MSN Music
>> from
>>> >>> Online Spotlight because the login "keyboard" entry does not
>>> >>> function
>>> >>> correctly.
>>> >>> 5) Some types of videos and MPEGs also do not play from within My
>>> >>> Videos.
>>> >>> 6) You cannot burn DVDs directly from the interface, but that is not
>>> >>> a
>>> >>> show stopper.
>>> >>> 7) Since one does not have direct access to the music library
>> database,
>>> >>> it is a pain to delete duplicate entries which otherwise can be done
>>> >>> using Media Player.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Otherwise, it is a pretty good imitation of "the real thing." As a
>> side
>>> >>> note, the 'OK' button seems to work well as a replacement for the
>>> >>> 'A'
>>> >>> button and the 'Back" button seems to emulate the 'B' button pretty
>>> >>> well. There is no DVD eject button, but that is no biggie. What is
>> nice
>>> >>> is that the standard Power button on the MCE remote does turn the
>>> >>> 360
>> on
>>> >>> and off.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Regards,
>>> >>>
>>> >>> =D-
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Derek R. Flickinger
>>> >>> Interactive Homes, Inc.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> "Todd Bowra [MSFT]" <toddbow@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>>> >>> news:Omyjg4K9FHA.2816@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> >>>> When used through the Xbox 360, Media Center has the same input
>>> >>>> model
>>> >>>> and
>>> >>>> UI, complete with transitions/animations and UI sounds. The two
>>> >>>> main
>>> >>>> UI
>>> >>>> items I can think of off-hand that are different are 1) music
>>> >>>> visualizations
>>> >>>> aren't supported (because they use the 3d rendering capabilities of
>> the
>>> >>>> video card in the PC) and 2) streaming DVDs from Media Center to
>>> >>>> Xbox
>>> >>>> 360
>>> >>>> isn't supported (though you can off course put a DVD in the Xbox
>> 360's
>>> >>>> DVD
>>> >>>> drive and watch it from there)
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> --
>>> >>>> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
>>> >>>> rights.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> "RCMe" <rcme_1_nospam@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>>> >>>> news:%23rGDbM$7FHA.4036@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> >>>>> Thanks for the follow-up Todd,
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> I am looking at the Xbox 360 as a MCE extender first and a gaming
>>> >>>>> console
>>> >>>>> second. The MCE computer has become a integral part of my family's
>>> >>>>> media
>>> >>>>> experience. So much so, I had thought about building another MCE
>>> >>>>> computer
>>> >>>>> for our other TV, but realized that Xbox 360 would be about the
>>> >>>>> same
>>> >>>> price,
>>> >>>>> plus you get the gaming part too! The Xbox 360 would replace the
>>> >>>>> MCE
>>> >>>>> computer on the "main" TV (allowing for a better gaming
>>> >>>>> experience)
>>> >>>>> and
>>> >>>> the
>>> >>>>> MCE computer would get shifted to the second TV.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> My concern over the remote is that my family has just gotten used
>>> >>>>> to
>>> >>>>> the
>>> >>>> MCE
>>> >>>>> remote, and I think it would be too confusing having a different
>>> >>>>> MCE
>>> >>>> remote
>>> >>>>> for the Xbox 360 MCE extender. Also, I didn't notice the "Recorded
>> TV"
>>> >>>>> and
>>> >>>>> "Guide" buttons on the picture I saw of the Xbox 360 remote. These
>> are
>>> >>>>> probably the most used buttons on the MCE remote.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> The other concern I have is whether there are any differences
>> between
>>> >>>>> the
>>> >>>>> Xbox 360 MCE "experience" and the MCE computer "experience". I
>> haven't
>>> >>>> been
>>> >>>>> able to find much detail on this. Again, the family has just
>> "settled
>>> >>>> into"
>>> >>>>> the whole MCE UI, and it would be confusing if there were any
>>> >>>>> differences
>>> >>>>> between using MCE on the Xbox 360 vs. the MCE computer.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> For the most part, we use "basic" features on the MCE computer.
>>> >>>>> Recorded
>>> >>>> TV
>>> >>>>> (most used feature along side of the Guide), Music (the song
>>> >>>>> transitions
>>> >>>> are
>>> >>>>> great), Picture slide shows (with the background music, is a hit
>> with
>>> >>>>> friends and family). We also have a largish home video library on
>>> >>>>> a
>>> >>>>> 1TB
>>> >>>>> RAID5 server (a Windows 2003 box that is shared to the MCE
>> computer).
>>> >>>>> This
>>> >>>>> holds all our home videos which are standard AVI files which we
>>> >>>>> regularly
>>> >>>>> watch in MCE. The server also has some standard MPEG2/WMV files
>>> >>>>> created
>>> >>>> from
>>> >>>>> video authoring software, as well as some "ripped" DVDs of home
>> video
>>> >>>>> authoring projects.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Will these basic MCE functions operate the same (i.e. same user
>>> >>>> experience,
>>> >>>>> same remote button presses, UI, etc.) through the Xbox 360 MCE
>>> >>>>> extender as
>>> >>>>> on the MCE computer?
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> "Todd Bowra [MSFT]" <toddbow@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
>>> >>>>> message
>>> >>>>> news:ezXIua97FHA.2176@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> >>>>> > Correct - you can use a standard Media Center remote with Xbox
>> 360.
>>> >>>> Note
>>> >>>>> > though that the Xbox 360 remotes have a few buttons that aren't
>>> >>>>> > present
>>> >>>> on
>>> >>>>> > Media Center remotes - X, Y, A, B, and the Xbox Guide button.
>>> >>>>> >
>>> >>>>> > To set your Xbox 360 to listen to all remotes, start at the Xbox
>> 360
>>> >>>>> > dashboard, navigate to System > Console Settings > Remote
>>> >>>>> > Control
>>> >>>>> > and
>>> >>>>> > select
>>> >>>>> > All Channels (vs. Xbox 360 Media Remote)
>>> >>>>> >
>>> >>>>> > --
>>> >>>>> > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers
>> no
>>> >>>>> > rights.
>>> >>>>> >
>>> >>>>> >
>>> >>>>> > "RCMe" <rcme_1_nospam@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>>> >>>>> > news:OJ39Le87FHA.1000@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> >>>>> >> This is great news Todd!
>>> >>>>> >>
>>> >>>>> >> So, if I get an Xbox 360, instead of buying an Xbox 360 remote
>> for
>>> >>>>> >> the
>>> >>>>> >> MCE
>>> >>>>> >> extender function, I can use a standard MCE remote? And this
>> would
>>> >>>>> >> be
>>> >>>>> >> accomplished by changing some setting in the Xbox 360
>>> >>>>> >> configuration? I
>>> >>>>> > don't
>>> >>>>> >> have Xbox 360 yet, so I don't know/can't confirm what this
>>> >>>>> >> config
>>> >>>> change
>>> >>>>> > is.
>>> >>>>> >> Does anyone know?
>>> >>>>> >>
>>> >>>>> >>
>>> >>>>> >>
>>> >>>>> >> "Todd Bowra [MSFT]" <toddbow@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
>> message
>>> >>>>> >> news:%233mj0e67FHA.2040@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> >>>>> >> > Actually, all Media Center PC remotes will work with Xbox 360
>> and
>>> >>>>> >> > the
>>> >>>>> > Xbox
>>> >>>>> >> > 360 remote will work with all Media Centers.
>>> >>>>> >> >
>>> >>>>> >> > Media Center PCs and Xbox 360 (and the MCX set top boxes for
>> that
>>> >>>>> > matter)
>>> >>>>> >> > all use the same IR protocol (RC6). This protocol has
>>> >>>>> >> > multiple
>>> >>>>> >> > sub-channels, and by default, Xbox 360 is set to only listen
>>> >>>>> >> > to
>>> >>>>> >> > one
>>> >>>>> >> > channel
>>> >>>>> >> > in order to avoid interference if you have a Media Center PC
>>> >>>>> >> > in
>>> >>>>> >> > the
>>> >>>>> >> > same
>>> >>>>> >> > room. Xbox 360 can be reconfigured via the dashboard to
>>> >>>>> >> > listen
>>> >>>>> >> > to
>>> >>>> all
>>> >>>>> > IR
>>> >>>>> >> > channels. Likewise, Media Center is configured by default to
>> not
>>> >>>>> >> > listen
>>> >>>>> >> > to
>>> >>>>> >> > the Xbox 360 remote to avoid interference if your Xbox 360 is
>> in
>>> >>>>> >> > the
>>> >>>>> > same
>>> >>>>> >> > room as your Media Center PC. Just like Xbox 360, Media
>>> >>>>> >> > Center
>>> >>>>> >> > can
>>> >>>> be
>>> >>>>> >> > reconfigured to listen to different IR channels.
>>> >>>>> >> >
>>> >>>>> >> > If you want to use one remote with both devices, all you need
>> to
>>> >>>>> >> > do
>>> >>>> is
>>> >>>>> >> > appropriately configure the device that the remote didn't
>>> >>>>> >> > come
>>> >>>>> >> > with.
>>> >>>>> >> >
>>> >>>>> >> > --
>>> >>>>> >> > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and
>> confers
>>> >>>>> >> > no
>>> >>>>> >> > rights.
>>> >>>>> >> >
>>> >>>>> >> >
>>> >>>>> >> > "Derek R. Flickinger"
>>> >>>>> >> > <DrFlick@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> >>>>> >> > wrote
>>> >>>> in
>>> >>>>> >> > message news:uVc2Fz57FHA.2816@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> >>>>> >> >> To make it even worse, Jump In List is being touted as a
>>> >>>>> >> >> great
>>> >>>> feature
>>> >>>>> > of
>>> >>>>> >> >> the 360 MCE eXtender by our friends like Charlie Owen on his
>>> >>>>> >> >> blog at
>>> >>>>> >> >>
>>> >>>>> >> >
>>> >>>>> >
>>> >>>>
>> http://blog.retrosight.com/PermaLink,guid,94b33fce-88a1-4745-8ba2-76002ebe07ab.aspx,
>>> >>>>> >> >> but their own keyboard does not support typing "real"
>>> >>>>> >> >> letters,
>>> >>>>> >> >> which
>>> >>>>> > even
>>> >>>>> >> > is
>>> >>>>> >> >> easier than triple-tapping (if it only worked).
>>> >>>>> >> >>
>>> >>>>> >> >> =D-
>>> >>>>> >> >>
>>> >>>>> >> >> "Derek R. Flickinger"
>>> >>>>> >> >> <DrFlick@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> >>>>> >> >> wrote
>>> >>>>> >> >> in
>>> >>>>> >> >> message news:uQtgJi57FHA.3976@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> >>>>> >> >> > Nigel,
>>> >>>>> >> >> >
>>> >>>>> >> >> > I understand what you are saying, but I think you may be
>> over
>>> >>>>> >> > simplifying
>>> >>>>> >> >> > it a bit. The whole thing seems much more convoluted to
>>> >>>>> >> >> > me
>>> >>>>> >> >> > than
>>> >>>>> > that.
>>> >>>>> >> >> > The problem is not that they both are different the same
>> way.
>>> >>>>> >> >> > The
>>> >>>>> > real
>>> >>>>> >> >> > problem is that they made the first ones different in the
>>> >>>>> >> >> > first
>>> >>>>> > place -
>>> >>>>> >> >> > and even in this round they are somewhat different again.
>>> >>>>> >> >> > From
>>> >>>> what
>>> >>>>> > we
>>> >>>>> >> >> > have been able to find on the subject, the 360 Media
>>> >>>>> >> >> > Remote
>>> >>>>> >> >> > even
>>> >>>>> > works
>>> >>>>> >> >> > somewhat differently than the 360 Universal Media Remote
>>> >>>>> >> >> > (although
>>> >>>> I
>>> >>>>> >> > will
>>> >>>>> >> >> > say we have not had a chance to play with the latter one
>> yet).
>>> >>>>> >> >> >
>>> >>>>> >> >> > We are trying to come up with a "usability" matrix that
>>> >>>>> >> >> > has
>> a
>>> >>>>> >> >> > list
>>> >>>>> >> >> > of
>>> >>>>> >> > the
>>> >>>>> >> >> > possible controllers down the left side and the different
>>> >>>>> >> >> > devices
>>> >>>>> >> >> > and
>>> >>>>> >> > the
>>> >>>>> >> >> > modes within the devices across the top. Within each
>>> >>>>> >> >> > square
>>> >>>>> >> >> > of
>>> >>>> the
>>> >>>>> >> > matrix
>>> >>>>> >> >> > are four different check boxes representing feature sets
>> (with
>>> >>>>> >> >> > an
>>> >>>>> >> >> > associated legend describing the feature set) for what
>>> >>>>> >> >> > actually
>>> >>>>> >> >> > works
>>> >>>>> >> > with
>>> >>>>> >> >> > what. Some control, some do nothing at all, some do
>>> >>>>> >> >> > navigation,
>>> >>>>> >> >> > some
>>> >>>>> >> >> > do
>>> >>>>> >> >> > not support typing (as in the keyboard and the 360 in MCE
>>> >>>>> >> >> > eXtender
>>> >>>>> >> > mode),
>>> >>>>> >> >> > and some support programming. It is a nightmare. I think
>> if
>>> >>>>> >> >> > you
>>> >>>>> >> >> > investigate this further, you will see how confusing it
>>> >>>>> >> >> > becomes.
>>> >>>>> > What
>>> >>>>> >> >> > were they thinking (or not, as the case may be)??
>>> >>>>> >> >> >
>>> >>>>> >> >> > To us, the bottom line is that we have not found anyone at
>>> >>>> Microsoft
>>> >>>>> > so
>>> >>>>> >> >> > far that can fill this chart in. It is as if one group
>>> >>>>> >> >> > had
>> no
>>> >>>> idea
>>> >>>>> >> >> > what
>>> >>>>> >> >> > the other group was doing. They could not possibly have
>>> >>>>> >> >> > performed
>>> >>>> a
>>> >>>>> >> >> > "cross-product line" usability study from a consumer's
>>> >>>>> >> >> > perspective
>>> >>>>> >> >> > or
>>> >>>>> >> > they
>>> >>>>> >> >> > never would have made such a giant step backwards from the
>>> >>>>> >> >> > simplicity
>>> >>>>> >> >> > of
>>> >>>>> >> >> > the single MCE remote. We should be able to take any one
>>> >>>>> >> >> > of
>>> >>>>> >> >> > the
>>> >>>>> >> >> > controller devices (except possibly the actual 360 wired
>>> >>>>> >> >> > or
>>> >>>> wireless
>>> >>>>> >> >> > controller) and have it work the same way with a PC-based
>> MCE
>>> >>>>> > machine,
>>> >>>>> >> > the
>>> >>>>> >> >> > current eXtenders, the original Xbox eXtender, or the 360
>>> >>>>> >> >> > in
>>> >>>>> >> >> > eXtender
>>> >>>>> >> >> > mode. Maybe we are missing something, but it appears we
>>> >>>>> >> >> > are
>>> >>>>> >> >> > light
>>> >>>>> >> >> > years
>>> >>>>> >> >> > away from being able to do that. Either way, it surely
>> makes
>>> >>>>> >> >> > a
>>> >>>> mess
>>> >>>>> >> >> > for
>>> >>>>> >> >> > our customers. It also is a mess for any developer trying
>> to
>>> >>>>> >> >> > make
>>> >>>> a
>>> >>>>> >> >> > software version of a remote that "should" work for all of
>> the
>>> >>>>> >> >> > different
>>> >>>>> >> >> > UIs. Although it seems dated now, this reference is
>>> >>>>> >> >> > pretty
>>> >>>>> >> >> > much
>>> >>>> all
>>> >>>>> >> > that
>>> >>>>> >> >> > is available publicly on what HID values are being send by
>> "a
>>> >>>>> >> >> > remote"
>>> >>>>> >> >> >
>>> >>>>> >> >
>>> >>>>> >
>>> >>>>
>> http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnwmt/html/remote_control.asp.
>>> >>>>> >> >> > Can you honestly tell me that this is valid for all of the
>>> >>>>> > combinations
>>> >>>>> >> >> > mentioned above?
>>> >>>>> >> >> >
>>> >>>>> >> >> > =D-
>>> >>>>> >> >> >
>>> >>>>> >> >> >
>>> >>>>> >> >> > "Nigel Barker" <nigel@xxxxxx> wrote in message
>>> >>>>> >> >> > news:5cm6o1pp7j95086ssg8a8acj2s0ptjhh8c@xxxxxxxxxx
>>> >>>>> >> >> >> On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 10:59:20 -0500, "Derek R. Flickinger"
>>> >>>>> >> >> >> <DrFlick@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> >>>>> >> >> >>
>>> >>>>> >> >> >>>We also are curious why the new Media Remote that comes
>> with
>>> >>>>> >> >> >>>the
>>> >>>>> >> >> >>>360
>>> >>>>> >> > does
>>> >>>>> >> >> >>>not work with a PC-based Media Center, even though it has
>> all
>>> >>>>> >> >> >>>of
>>> >>>>> >> >> >>>the
>>> >>>>> >> >> >>>"correct" buttons (including the MCE "Start" button). It
>> is
>>> >>>>> >> >> >>>getting
>>> >>>>> >> > very
>>> >>>>> >> >> >>>confusing for developers to figure out how to develop a
>>> >>>>> >> >> >>>remote
>>> >>>>> > control
>>> >>>>> >> >> >>>that
>>> >>>>> >> >> >>>works across the product lines now, even though they all
>> have
>>> >>>>> >> >> >>>the
>>> >>>>> > same
>>> >>>>> >> >> >>>buttons. Unfortunately, it is even more confusing for
>>> >>>>> >> >> >>>the
>>> >>>>> > consumers.
>>> >>>>> >> > We
>>> >>>>> >> >> >>>have gone from a single MCE remote we can carry around
>>> >>>>> >> >> >>>the
>>> >>>>> >> >> >>>house
>>> >>>>> >> >> >>>and
>>> >>>>> >> > use
>>> >>>>> >> >> >>>with all of our 10' MCE UIs to multiple remotes/keyboards
>>> >>>>> >> >> >>>that
>>> >>>> only
>>> >>>>> >> > work
>>> >>>>> >> >> >>>on
>>> >>>>> >> >> >>>specific devices, even though the UIs and most of the
>> buttons
>>> >>>>> >> >> >>>are
>>> >>>>> > the
>>> >>>>> >> >> >>>same.
>>> >>>>> >> >> >>>Man, don't you guys ever talk to each other???
>>> >>>>> >> >> >>
>>> >>>>> >> >> >> This is consistent with the original Xbox MCE Extender as
>>> >>>>> >> >> >> this
>>> >>>>> > remote
>>> >>>>> >> > is
>>> >>>>> >> >> >> almost
>>> >>>>> >> >> >> identical to the MCE one but does not operate the PC.
>>> >>>>> >> >> >>
>>> >>>>> >> >> >> --
>>> >>>>> >> >> >> Nigel Barker
>>> >>>>> >> >> >> Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur
>>> >>>>> >> >> >
>>> >>>>> >> >> >
>>> >>>>> >> >>
>>> >>>>> >> >>
>>> >>>>> >> >
>>> >>>>> >> >
>>> >>>>> >>
>>> >>>>> >>
>>> >>>>> >
>>> >>>>> >
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>


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