Re: Xbox Extender giving network congestion errors

From: Todd Bowra [MSFT] (toddbow_at_online.microsoft.com)
Date: 02/11/05 

Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 20:17:08 -0800

Given the behavioral change you saw with changing your network setup, the
next best step is to try a cross-over cable again; if you hit problems
getting the PC and Xbox to talk like last time it's worth troubleshooting
them to get the rest of your network out of the picture.

If you see the specific error you reported before with the MCX reporting it
couldn't connect to the PC, try removing and re-adding your MCX to your PC:
 - Launch the MCX Manager (Start --> All Programs --> Accessories --> Media
Center --> Media Center Extender Manager)
 - Select your Extender, click Properties, select Remove.
 - Select File --> Add a new Extender... and type in the 8-digit code
displayed on the TV screen your MCX is plugged into

-----------------

That bit said, comments regarding your current observations/questions:

Regarding slow mo playback - next time you see video enter this mode, try
pressing Play, make a note of the time (location in the video in mm:ss),
count to 10 seconds, and press Play again, making note of the time again.
How many seconds have elapsed in the show?

> I'm pausing the video with the remote. It corrects itself in a really
short
> period of time. Like I hit pause twice in a row i.e. within 500ms and it
> corrects itself. ... If the buffer is depleted wouldn't it show like a
flickering black image or
> something since there's nothing to display?

Hmm... this doesn't sound like buffer depletion; what I would expect you to
see is the following:
1) buffers deplete; network congestion notification appears
2) dropped video frames due to reduced network throughput yields choppy
playback (~15 FPS or less)
3) ~5 seconds after network returns to normal the congestion notification
goes away and normal playback resumes

If you've played with TweakMCE then it's possible the behavior would be
slightly different (e.g. no congestion notification).

Regarding e-mail - it's best to keep this in the newsgroup for the benefit
of others. 

-- 
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
"EW" <EW@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:71A45209-7C36-4F78-920A-1A881FA1CAF2@microsoft.com...
> For question one.
> It looks like slow motion playback.   I can't tell really if it's dropped
> video play - although it doesn't really appear to be.   Full Audio -
Actually
> I've noticed that slowing down a little too.  I don't remember off hand if
it
> was before or after I added the switch.  I'll respond back again with more
> data on that.
>
> For question two.
> Its only for recorded video and most predominant when captioning is
enabled.
>
> For question three.
> I'm pausing the video with the remote.  It corrects itself in a really
short
> period of time.  Like I hit pause twice in a row i.e. within 500ms and it
> corrects itself.  Makes sense that the buffer gets depleted and doesn't
get
> filled up in time.   However, it starts doing this after 5min of flawless
> streaming and happens really quickly then it can be corrected really
quickly.
> If the buffer is depleted wouldn't it show like a flickering black image
or
> something since there's nothing to display?
>
> Performance Monitor will help us pin this down better.
> Hope I don't forget to bring it home.
> BTW my title is Senior SW Engineer at Intel corp.   I also have a BS EE
and
> design embedded systems.  So maybe we should continue this privately
through
> email or something.   Can you look up my email address from the server or
> Admin and send me a note.  I'll send you my Intel address from there.
>
> EOM
>
> "Todd Bowra [MSFT]" wrote:
>
> > EW - can you refresh my memory on something - were you seeing the same
> > problem as Kraig where network throughput as reported in Task Manager
> > occasionally drops to zero?
> >
> > > The video stream becomes conjested or something (no notification) and
it
> > > starts slowing down (maybe choppy, but I don't think it's losing data)
> > When you say it slows down, which of the below behaviors do you see?
> > 1) slow motion playback (video is continuous, but it moves slowly)
> > 2) dropped video frames, but full audio (video looks choppy, audio is
> > unbroken)
> > 3) both video and audio pause and then play and then pause and then
play,
> > etc.
> >
> > Also, double-checking - you're seeing this behavior on Recorded TV, not
Live
> > TV?
> >
> > > Maybe pausing the stream (pause on the video) causes the buffer to
correct
> > > itself and the stream continues on its merry way until it reaches the
end
> > > again.
> > If you're seeing the same problem as Kraig with network throughput
dropping
> > to zero, then this is exactly what's happening - when network throughput
> > goes to zero, no new video can be delivered to the Xbox; as a result,
the
> > Xbox's buffers will deplete as the video plays (no network throughput
means
> > the buffers can't be topped off); once the buffers are completely
depleted,
> > playback will pause for lack of anything to play. Until the network
comes
> > back to life, the Xbox can't refill its buffers. Pausing the video when
> > network throughput has dropped to zero will mask the underlying network
> > issue and keep the buffers from fully depleting (because video isn't
taken
> > out of the buffers unless it's being played)..
> >
> > -- 
> > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights.
> >
> >
> > "EW" <EW@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> > news:79F6AAB5-E1AC-4E7B-9C30-2272468FE3B3@microsoft.com...
> > > Status Update.
> > >
> > > Todd & Kraig:
> > >
> > > Kraig I think this might help you too.
> > >
> > > I tried connecting the crossover cable through a RJ45 coupler to the
25
> > foot
> > > RJ45 cable.  Now this should work cause the pins are 1-1 and they are
> > crossed
> > > over from the cable.  Here's what happened the Xbox found the PC but
there
> > > was a message stating that the extender found the media center pc and
> > > connected but wasn't able to communicate correctly.  So I bagged this
> > > experiment.   May Try it later again if suggested.
> > >
> > > However, I was able to vastly improve my performance when I did the
> > following:
> > > I connected my router to a brand new Lynksys 5 port 10/100 workgroup
> > switch.
> > > I connected the media center pc to one switch and the xbox to the
other.
> > > Much improved performance - I can watch up to 5 min of streaming
recorded
> > > video with closed captions.
> > > However there's the catch...
> > > More often than I would like...
> > > The video stream becomes conjested or something (no notification) and
it
> > > starts slowing down (maybe choppy, but I don't think it's losing data)
> > > (And the time duration between smooth streaming data and choppy data
is
> > > variable).
> > > However....
> > > I can hit the pause button and it corrects itself.
> > > This is still glitchy as far as I'm concerned and I would like to see
some
> > > more improvements.
> > >
> > > Here are some guesses to what is happening:
> > > The video buffer in the software reaches the end.
> > > The Media Center PC goes out to the Hard Drive (SATA) in this case and
> > fills
> > > up the buffer again.
> > > Question.... Is it possible that it interrupt the streaming data in
the
> > > process?
> > > Could it be that the time that it takes to fill up the buffer and
possible
> > > gliches in a correction algorithm cause this choppy behavior.
> > >
> > > Maybe pausing the stream (pause on the video) causes the buffer to
correct
> > > itself and the stream continues on its merry way until it reaches the
end
> > > again.
> > > Now having written some streaming software myself.  I know that one
method
> > > is to have a head and tail pointer to the buffer.  Thus making what we
> > call a
> > > circular buffer.  Could this be what you guys are using? I was just
> > thinking
> > > that if it's only one circular buffer that might not be enough and it
> > > produces backlog.  However, if its multiple circular buffers, like
used
> > for
> > > correction algorithms then maybe increasing the buffer size and an
> > > improvement on the algorithm to switch between streams will help.
> > > I believe this problem can be corrected.  Just something for you folks
at
> > > microsoft to look at.  Because pausing every 5 minutes or so is not an
> > ideal
> > > solution.
> > > I'm just trying to get you guys to look at this since I have a brand
new
> > > xbox, pc, switch, ect, I've tested the cables and they are fine.
> > >
> > > "Todd Bowra [MSFT]" wrote:
> > >
> > > > It appears that your network is operating right on the edge of
> > acceptability
> > > > (due to the drops in throughput to 0), which really makes no sense
given
> > > > that it's 100 Mbps wired. Recovery from network congestion works
> > slightly
> > > > different with Live content (vs. buffered content), which would
account
> > for
> > > > the two behaviors you see. Something to try:
> > > >
> > > > 1) Download and install the TweakMCE power toy (let me know if you
don't
> > > > have this already)
> > > > 2) Launch Media Center on your PC, navigate to More Programs and
select
> > > > TweakMCE
> > > > 3) From the main list, choose Extender and then Show Network
Congestion
> > > > notification
> > > > 4) Select Do Not Show Notification; click Save and then Exit
> > > > 5) Restart your Media Center and your MCX
> > > > 6) Attempt to play recorded TV again
> > > > 7) If you still see the notification in the upper right warning you
of
> > > > network congestion, repeat steps 2-6, but select "Show Notification"
in
> > step
> > > > 4
> > > >
> > > > note: this is a workaround only - it doesn't resolve the underlying
> > issue
> > > > note 2: TweakMCE is an unsupported power toy and is not guaranteed
to
> > work
> > > >
> > > > -- 
> > > > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
> > rights.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Kraig with a K" <kraig@kraig.kom> wrote in message
> > > > news:%23v$X50SCFHA.392@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> > > > > Hi Todd,
> > > > >
> > > > > yes it does! ... what could it be?
> > > > >
> > > > > and yes Kraig = Craig :)  Different computers used while
posting... :)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "Todd Bowra [MSFT]" <toddbow@online.microsoft.com> wrote in
message
> > > > > news:OPblHZMCFHA.1932@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> > > > > > Quick experiment to try - start a Live TV stream, pause for 5
> > minutes,
> > > > and
> > > > > > then watch it (5 minutes behind Live - do not skip forward). Do
you
> > see
> > > > > > network congestion issues?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -- 
> > > > > > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers
no
> > > > > > rights.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Craig in Montreal" <craigmtl@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > news:%23s8658LCFHA.1392@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > > > > >> So I just tested mine.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Crossover cable:  same problem
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Added second NIC with a D-Link DFW-538TX, disabled other..
tried
> > > > through
> > > > > >> a
> > > > > >> hub and switch:  same problem
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> So now I'm back to the original problem - eveRy minute or so, I
get
> > 5
> > > > > >> seconds of Network Congestion.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> There is one thing I didn't mention earlier though: it is only
on
> > > > > >> recorded
> > > > > >> TV.  I don't get the same problem on live TV.. so the network
may
> > not
> > > > be
> > > > > > the
> > > > > >> issue..
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Kraig
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> "Todd Bowra [MSFT]" <toddbow@online.microsoft.com> wrote in
message
> > > > > >> news:%23Idfw2HCFHA.4008@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > > > > >> > Another option that may be easier is to temporarily relocate
the
> > Xbox
> > > > > > near
> > > > > >> > the PC.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Regarding the network usage graph - the fact that it drops to
0
> > > > > > indicates
> > > > > >> > that one of three things likely happened:
> > > > > >> > 1) Your PC stopped sending data
> > > > > >> > 2) Your network (router/switch/etc.) stopped relaying data
> > > > > >> > 3) Your Xbox stopped receiving data
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Based on previous observations, I'm inclined to believe that
item
> > 1
> > > > or
> > > > > >> > 2
> > > > > >> > is
> > > > > >> > at fault. You've mostly eliminated 2 as the source, but using
a
> > > > > > cross-over
> > > > > >> > cable will confirm this. This leaves #1 as the likely cause.
> > Before
> > > > we
> > > > > > go
> > > > > >> > to
> > > > > >> > far down that path, it would be best to eliminate #2. Let us
know
> > how
> > > > > >> > it
> > > > > >> > goes with the cross-over cable and we'll go from there.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > -- 
> > > > > >> > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and
confers
> > no
> > > > > >> > rights.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > "JW" <anonymous@Nospam.Iam> wrote in message
> > > > > >> > news:u5yJLsGCFHA.612@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > > > > >> >> If you have a short x-over cable and a regular cable then
just
> > get a
> > > > > >> >> cable
> > > > > >> >> extender connector( 2 female connections) at RS it is a much
> > more
> > > > > > useful
> > > > > >> >> adapter to have around the house.
> > > > > >> >> "Kraig with a K" <kraig@kraig.kom> wrote in message
> > > > > >> >> news:u8s9WYGCFHA.3416@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > > > > >> >> > Hi Todd..
> > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > >> >> >> Few questions:
> > > > > >> >> >> - Have you rebooted both your PC and Xbox recently?
> > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > >> >> > Yes, I reboot every couple days - and often shut down the
> > computer
> > > > > >> >> > if
> > > > > > I
> > > > > >> >> > have no scheduled recordings.
> > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > >> >> >> - What have you changed/installed/removed on your PC
between
> > the
> > > > > > time
> > > > > >> >> >> that
> > > > > >> >> >> things worked well and when the problem appeared?
> > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > >> >> > I've done nothing, added nothing, installed nothing except
> > Windows
> > > > > >> >> > critical updates.
> > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > >> >> >> - What is your full network topology, including all
routers,
> > > > > > switches,
> > > > > >> >> >> PCs,
> > > > > >> >> >> etc.? What if anything has changed on your network
between
> > the
> > > > time
> > > > > >> > this
> > > > > >> >> >> worked and now?
> > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > >> >> > Nothing has changed.    Topology:  Xbox over Cat5e network
cab
> > le
> > > > to
> > > > > > my
> > > > > >> >> > usual Linksys WAP54G router. Firmware is the latest.
I've
> > also
> > > > > > tried
> > > > > >> > it
> > > > > >> >> > with a Linksys EG0801W desktop Switch I borrowed from
work.
> > DHCP
> > > > > >> >> > is
> > > > > >> >> > disabled, all static IPs.
> > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > >> >> > I also have a Tosiba R100 laptop that connects wirelessly,
but
> > the
> > > > > >> > problem
> > > > > >> >> > does not change if the laptop is on or off. I have
security
> > > > enabled
> > > > > > and
> > > > > >> > my
> > > > > >> >> > SSID is disabled - nobody is connecting to my wireless
router
> > but
> > > > > >> >> > me.
> > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > >> >> >> - Have you tried directly connecting your PC to the Xbox
via
> > a
> > > > > >> > crossover
> > > > > >> >> >> cable, eliminating all of your switches, routers, etc.?
> > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > >> >> > I don't have a 10 metre crossover cable I'm afraid, but
I'll
> > try
> > > > and
> > > > > >> > hunt
> > > > > >> >> > that down tonight.. (so no, haven't checked this yet).
> > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > >> >> >> - While TV is streaming to your Xbox, open Task Manager
and
> > click
> > > > > >> >> >> on
> > > > > >> > the
> > > > > >> >> >> Networking tab; next select View --> Update Speed -->
High.
> > Let
> > > > > >> >> >> this
> > > > > >> > run
> > > > > >> >> >> until you see the network congestion notification on your
> > Xbox
> > > > then
> > > > > >> > check
> > > > > >> >> >> the Networking graph - are there any major drops in
> > throughput
> > > > > >> >> >> (especially
> > > > > >> >> >> if they drop to 0) before you saw the network congestion
> > > > > > notification?
> > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > >> >> > Yes it dropped to zero and then climbed back up to about
15%
> > usage
> > > > > >> >> > where
> > > > > >> >> > it was normal.  Rollercoaster graph.
> > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > >> >> > Thanks..
> > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > >> >> > Kraig
> > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > >> >> > "Todd Bowra [MSFT]" <toddbow@online.microsoft.com> wrote
in
> > > > message
> > > > > >> >> > news:uIKNB$7BFHA.3528@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > > > > >> >> >> The most common cause for this behavior is a buggy driver
for
> > > > your
> > > > > >> >> >> PC's
> > > > > >> >> >> Ethernet card; this doesn't appear to be the cause in
your
> > case
> > > > > > given
> > > > > >> >> >> that
> > > > > >> >> >> this used to work and that you're running the latest
driver.
> > The
> > > > > > next
> > > > > >> >> >> more
> > > > > >> >> >> common cause is firmware issues with switches/routers.
> > > > > >> >> >>
> > > > > >> >> >> Few questions:
> > > > > >> >> >> - Have you rebooted both your PC and Xbox recently?
> > > > > >> >> >> - What have you changed/installed/removed on your PC
between
> > the
> > > > > > time
> > > > > >> >> >> that
> > > > > >> >> >> things worked well and when the problem appeared?
> > > > > >> >> >> - What is your full network topology, including all
routers,
> > > > > > switches,
> > > > > >> >> >> PCs,
> > > > > >> >> >> etc.? What if anything has changed on your network
between
> > the
> > > > time
> > > > > >> > this
> > > > > >> >> >> worked and now?
> > > > > >> >> >> - Have you tried directly connecting your PC to the Xbox
via
> > a
> > > > > >> > crossover
> > > > > >> >> >> cable, eliminating all of your switches, routers, etc.?
> > > > > >> >> >> - While TV is streaming to your Xbox, open Task Manager
and
> > click
> > > > > >> >> >> on
> > > > > >> > the
> > > > > >> >> >> Networking tab; next select View --> Update Speed -->
High.
> > Let
> > > > > >> >> >> this
> > > > > >> > run
> > > > > >> >> >> until you see the network congestion notification on your
> > Xbox
> > > > then
> > > > > >> > check
> > > > > >> >> >> the Networking graph - are there any major drops in
> > throughput
> > > > > >> >> >> (especially
> > > > > >> >> >> if they drop to 0) before you saw the network congestion
> > > > > > notification?
> > > > > >> >> >>
> > > > > >> >> >> -- 
> > > > > >> >> >> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and
> > confers
> > > > no
> > > > > >> >> >> rights.
> > > > > >> >> >>
> > > > > >> >> >>
> > > > > >> >> >> "Kraig with a K" <kraig@kraig.kom> wrote in message
> > > > > >> >> >> news:%23xP%23mU6BFHA.2568@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> > > > > >> >> >>> Hello all,
> > > > > >> >> >>>
> > > > > >> >> >>> My Xbox extender has started to give me network
congestion
> > > > errors.
> > > > > >> >> >>> It
> > > > > >> >> >>> was
> > > > > >> >> >>> working flawlessly for a few months, but now I can't get
rid
> > of
> > > > > > them.
> > > > > >> >> >>>
> > > > > >> >> >>> I have a AMD 64, 1gb RAM, 200gb SATA drive.
> > > > > >> >> >>>
> > > > > >> >> >>> I've changed all the network hardware - I'm using a
Linksys
> > > > 10/100
> > > > > >> >> >>> switch
> > > > > >> >> >>> now.    I've replaced the network cable from the Xbox to
the
> > > > > >> >> >>> Switch
> > > > > >> >> >>> which
> > > > > >> >> >> is
> > > > > >> >> >>> about 10 metres away.
> > > > > >> >> >>>
> > > > > >> >> >>> I've defragmented my hard drive.  I've tried disabling
the
> > > > > > antivirus
> > > > > >> >> >>> real
> > > > > >> >> >>> time protection (Kaspersky).  I've updated the network
> > drivers
> > > > > >> >> >>> (Chaintech
> > > > > >> >> >>> Motherboard on-board Realtek).  There are no additional
> > > > processes
> > > > > >> >> >>> running
> > > > > >> >> >>> and the Extender monitor has zero bars - only one when
it's
> > > > > > attached
> > > > > >> > and
> > > > > >> >> >>> playing.  The computer is clean - I barely use it only
to
> > record
> > > > > >> >> >>> TV
> > > > > >> > and
> > > > > >> >> >> burn
> > > > > >> >> >>> files, there has been no major or minor configuration
change
> > in
> > > > > >> >> >>> months
> > > > > >> >> >>> on
> > > > > >> >> >>> it.
> > > > > >> >> >>>
> > > > > >> >> >>> I installed Network Spy 2.0 to monitor the bandwidth and
> > when
> > > > I'm
> > > > > >> >> >>> playing
> > > > > >> >> >>> recorded TV on the Xbox, it never, ever even goes beyond
20%
> > of
> > > > > >> >> >>> the
> > > > > >> >> >>> bandwidth available.
> > > > > >> >> >>>
> > > > > >> >> >>> I'm frustrated now, I can't watch TV very well on the
Xbox -
> > > > every
> > > > > > 5
> > > > > >> >> >> seconds
> > > > > >> >> >>> it'll get congested, then it'll become uncongested for 1
> > minute,
> > > > > > then
> > > > > >> >> >>> back
> > > > > >> >> >>> to 5-10 seconds of congestion.. the cycle continues.
> > > > > >> >> >>>
> > > > > >> >> >>> I've even tried reducing the recording quality of the
shows
> > to
> > > > > > "low"
> > > > > >> >> >>> and
> > > > > >> >> >>> that doesn't solve the problem either.   This has only
> > started
> > > > to
> > > > > >> > happen
> > > > > >> >> >> in
> > > > > >> >> >>> the past 2 weeks...  the computer has all the available
> > updates
> > > > on
> > > > > >> >> >>> it.
> > > > > >> >> >>>
> > > > > >> >> >>> Xbox Live works perfectly - no network errors.  I've
hooked
> > my
> > > > > > laptop
> > > > > >> > up
> > > > > >> >> >> to
> > > > > >> >> >>> the network cable as well and there doesn't appear to be
any
> > > > > > cabling
> > > > > >> >> >>> issues - but then again, I swapped cables with a new one
> > to..
> > > > but
> > > > > >> > still
> > > > > >> >> >> have
> > > > > >> >> >>> the same problem.
> > > > > >> >> >>>
> > > > > >> >> >>> Anyone else have any ideas?
> > > > > >> >> >>>
> > > > > >> >> >>> Thank you
> > > > > >> >> >>>
> > > > > >> >> >>> Kraig
> > > > > >> >> >>>
> > > > > >> >> >>>
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> >
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> >