Re: Xbox Extender giving network congestion errors

From: EW (EW_at_discussions.microsoft.com)
Date: 02/10/05 

Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 21:27:03 -0800

For question one.
It looks like slow motion playback. I can't tell really if it's dropped
video play - although it doesn't really appear to be. Full Audio - Actually
I've noticed that slowing down a little too. I don't remember off hand if it
was before or after I added the switch. I'll respond back again with more
data on that.

For question two.
Its only for recorded video and most predominant when captioning is enabled.

For question three.
I'm pausing the video with the remote. It corrects itself in a really short
period of time. Like I hit pause twice in a row i.e. within 500ms and it
corrects itself. Makes sense that the buffer gets depleted and doesn't get
filled up in time. However, it starts doing this after 5min of flawless
streaming and happens really quickly then it can be corrected really quickly.
If the buffer is depleted wouldn't it show like a flickering black image or
something since there's nothing to display?

Performance Monitor will help us pin this down better.
Hope I don't forget to bring it home.
BTW my title is Senior SW Engineer at Intel corp. I also have a BS EE and
design embedded systems. So maybe we should continue this privately through
email or something. Can you look up my email address from the server or
Admin and send me a note. I'll send you my Intel address from there.

EOM

"Todd Bowra [MSFT]" wrote:

> EW - can you refresh my memory on something - were you seeing the same
> problem as Kraig where network throughput as reported in Task Manager
> occasionally drops to zero?
>
> > The video stream becomes conjested or something (no notification) and it
> > starts slowing down (maybe choppy, but I don't think it's losing data)
> When you say it slows down, which of the below behaviors do you see?
> 1) slow motion playback (video is continuous, but it moves slowly)
> 2) dropped video frames, but full audio (video looks choppy, audio is
> unbroken)
> 3) both video and audio pause and then play and then pause and then play,
> etc.
>
> Also, double-checking - you're seeing this behavior on Recorded TV, not Live
> TV?
>
> > Maybe pausing the stream (pause on the video) causes the buffer to correct
> > itself and the stream continues on its merry way until it reaches the end
> > again.
> If you're seeing the same problem as Kraig with network throughput dropping
> to zero, then this is exactly what's happening - when network throughput
> goes to zero, no new video can be delivered to the Xbox; as a result, the
> Xbox's buffers will deplete as the video plays (no network throughput means
> the buffers can't be topped off); once the buffers are completely depleted,
> playback will pause for lack of anything to play. Until the network comes
> back to life, the Xbox can't refill its buffers. Pausing the video when
> network throughput has dropped to zero will mask the underlying network
> issue and keep the buffers from fully depleting (because video isn't taken
> out of the buffers unless it's being played)..
>
> --
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
>
>
> "EW" <EW@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:79F6AAB5-E1AC-4E7B-9C30-2272468FE3B3@microsoft.com...
> > Status Update.
> >
> > Todd & Kraig:
> >
> > Kraig I think this might help you too.
> >
> > I tried connecting the crossover cable through a RJ45 coupler to the 25
> foot
> > RJ45 cable. Now this should work cause the pins are 1-1 and they are
> crossed
> > over from the cable. Here's what happened the Xbox found the PC but there
> > was a message stating that the extender found the media center pc and
> > connected but wasn't able to communicate correctly. So I bagged this
> > experiment. May Try it later again if suggested.
> >
> > However, I was able to vastly improve my performance when I did the
> following:
> > I connected my router to a brand new Lynksys 5 port 10/100 workgroup
> switch.
> > I connected the media center pc to one switch and the xbox to the other.
> > Much improved performance - I can watch up to 5 min of streaming recorded
> > video with closed captions.
> > However there's the catch...
> > More often than I would like...
> > The video stream becomes conjested or something (no notification) and it
> > starts slowing down (maybe choppy, but I don't think it's losing data)
> > (And the time duration between smooth streaming data and choppy data is
> > variable).
> > However....
> > I can hit the pause button and it corrects itself.
> > This is still glitchy as far as I'm concerned and I would like to see some
> > more improvements.
> >
> > Here are some guesses to what is happening:
> > The video buffer in the software reaches the end.
> > The Media Center PC goes out to the Hard Drive (SATA) in this case and
> fills
> > up the buffer again.
> > Question.... Is it possible that it interrupt the streaming data in the
> > process?
> > Could it be that the time that it takes to fill up the buffer and possible
> > gliches in a correction algorithm cause this choppy behavior.
> >
> > Maybe pausing the stream (pause on the video) causes the buffer to correct
> > itself and the stream continues on its merry way until it reaches the end
> > again.
> > Now having written some streaming software myself. I know that one method
> > is to have a head and tail pointer to the buffer. Thus making what we
> call a
> > circular buffer. Could this be what you guys are using? I was just
> thinking
> > that if it's only one circular buffer that might not be enough and it
> > produces backlog. However, if its multiple circular buffers, like used
> for
> > correction algorithms then maybe increasing the buffer size and an
> > improvement on the algorithm to switch between streams will help.
> > I believe this problem can be corrected. Just something for you folks at
> > microsoft to look at. Because pausing every 5 minutes or so is not an
> ideal
> > solution.
> > I'm just trying to get you guys to look at this since I have a brand new
> > xbox, pc, switch, ect, I've tested the cables and they are fine.
> >
> > "Todd Bowra [MSFT]" wrote:
> >
> > > It appears that your network is operating right on the edge of
> acceptability
> > > (due to the drops in throughput to 0), which really makes no sense given
> > > that it's 100 Mbps wired. Recovery from network congestion works
> slightly
> > > different with Live content (vs. buffered content), which would account
> for
> > > the two behaviors you see. Something to try:
> > >
> > > 1) Download and install the TweakMCE power toy (let me know if you don't
> > > have this already)
> > > 2) Launch Media Center on your PC, navigate to More Programs and select
> > > TweakMCE
> > > 3) From the main list, choose Extender and then Show Network Congestion
> > > notification
> > > 4) Select Do Not Show Notification; click Save and then Exit
> > > 5) Restart your Media Center and your MCX
> > > 6) Attempt to play recorded TV again
> > > 7) If you still see the notification in the upper right warning you of
> > > network congestion, repeat steps 2-6, but select "Show Notification" in
> step
> > > 4
> > >
> > > note: this is a workaround only - it doesn't resolve the underlying
> issue
> > > note 2: TweakMCE is an unsupported power toy and is not guaranteed to
> work
> > >
> > > --
> > > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
> rights.
> > >
> > >
> > > "Kraig with a K" <kraig@kraig.kom> wrote in message
> > > news:%23v$X50SCFHA.392@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> > > > Hi Todd,
> > > >
> > > > yes it does! ... what could it be?
> > > >
> > > > and yes Kraig = Craig :) Different computers used while posting... :)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Todd Bowra [MSFT]" <toddbow@online.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:OPblHZMCFHA.1932@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> > > > > Quick experiment to try - start a Live TV stream, pause for 5
> minutes,
> > > and
> > > > > then watch it (5 minutes behind Live - do not skip forward). Do you
> see
> > > > > network congestion issues?
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
> > > > > rights.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "Craig in Montreal" <craigmtl@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > news:%23s8658LCFHA.1392@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > > > >> So I just tested mine.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Crossover cable: same problem
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Added second NIC with a D-Link DFW-538TX, disabled other.. tried
> > > through
> > > > >> a
> > > > >> hub and switch: same problem
> > > > >>
> > > > >> So now I'm back to the original problem - eveRy minute or so, I get
> 5
> > > > >> seconds of Network Congestion.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> There is one thing I didn't mention earlier though: it is only on
> > > > >> recorded
> > > > >> TV. I don't get the same problem on live TV.. so the network may
> not
> > > be
> > > > > the
> > > > >> issue..
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Kraig
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> "Todd Bowra [MSFT]" <toddbow@online.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> > > > >> news:%23Idfw2HCFHA.4008@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > > > >> > Another option that may be easier is to temporarily relocate the
> Xbox
> > > > > near
> > > > >> > the PC.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Regarding the network usage graph - the fact that it drops to 0
> > > > > indicates
> > > > >> > that one of three things likely happened:
> > > > >> > 1) Your PC stopped sending data
> > > > >> > 2) Your network (router/switch/etc.) stopped relaying data
> > > > >> > 3) Your Xbox stopped receiving data
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Based on previous observations, I'm inclined to believe that item
> 1
> > > or
> > > > >> > 2
> > > > >> > is
> > > > >> > at fault. You've mostly eliminated 2 as the source, but using a
> > > > > cross-over
> > > > >> > cable will confirm this. This leaves #1 as the likely cause.
> Before
> > > we
> > > > > go
> > > > >> > to
> > > > >> > far down that path, it would be best to eliminate #2. Let us know
> how
> > > > >> > it
> > > > >> > goes with the cross-over cable and we'll go from there.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > --
> > > > >> > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers
> no
> > > > >> > rights.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > "JW" <anonymous@Nospam.Iam> wrote in message
> > > > >> > news:u5yJLsGCFHA.612@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > > > >> >> If you have a short x-over cable and a regular cable then just
> get a
> > > > >> >> cable
> > > > >> >> extender connector( 2 female connections) at RS it is a much
> more
> > > > > useful
> > > > >> >> adapter to have around the house.
> > > > >> >> "Kraig with a K" <kraig@kraig.kom> wrote in message
> > > > >> >> news:u8s9WYGCFHA.3416@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > > > >> >> > Hi Todd..
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> >> Few questions:
> > > > >> >> >> - Have you rebooted both your PC and Xbox recently?
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> > Yes, I reboot every couple days - and often shut down the
> computer
> > > > >> >> > if
> > > > > I
> > > > >> >> > have no scheduled recordings.
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> >> - What have you changed/installed/removed on your PC between
> the
> > > > > time
> > > > >> >> >> that
> > > > >> >> >> things worked well and when the problem appeared?
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> > I've done nothing, added nothing, installed nothing except
> Windows
> > > > >> >> > critical updates.
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> >> - What is your full network topology, including all routers,
> > > > > switches,
> > > > >> >> >> PCs,
> > > > >> >> >> etc.? What if anything has changed on your network between
> the
> > > time
> > > > >> > this
> > > > >> >> >> worked and now?
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> > Nothing has changed. Topology: Xbox over Cat5e network cab
> le
> > > to
> > > > > my
> > > > >> >> > usual Linksys WAP54G router. Firmware is the latest. I've
> also
> > > > > tried
> > > > >> > it
> > > > >> >> > with a Linksys EG0801W desktop Switch I borrowed from work.
> DHCP
> > > > >> >> > is
> > > > >> >> > disabled, all static IPs.
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> > I also have a Tosiba R100 laptop that connects wirelessly, but
> the
> > > > >> > problem
> > > > >> >> > does not change if the laptop is on or off. I have security
> > > enabled
> > > > > and
> > > > >> > my
> > > > >> >> > SSID is disabled - nobody is connecting to my wireless router
> but
> > > > >> >> > me.
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> >> - Have you tried directly connecting your PC to the Xbox via
> a
> > > > >> > crossover
> > > > >> >> >> cable, eliminating all of your switches, routers, etc.?
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> > I don't have a 10 metre crossover cable I'm afraid, but I'll
> try
> > > and
> > > > >> > hunt
> > > > >> >> > that down tonight.. (so no, haven't checked this yet).
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> >> - While TV is streaming to your Xbox, open Task Manager and
> click
> > > > >> >> >> on
> > > > >> > the
> > > > >> >> >> Networking tab; next select View --> Update Speed --> High.
> Let
> > > > >> >> >> this
> > > > >> > run
> > > > >> >> >> until you see the network congestion notification on your
> Xbox
> > > then
> > > > >> > check
> > > > >> >> >> the Networking graph - are there any major drops in
> throughput
> > > > >> >> >> (especially
> > > > >> >> >> if they drop to 0) before you saw the network congestion
> > > > > notification?
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> > Yes it dropped to zero and then climbed back up to about 15%
> usage
> > > > >> >> > where
> > > > >> >> > it was normal. Rollercoaster graph.
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> > Thanks..
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> > Kraig
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> > "Todd Bowra [MSFT]" <toddbow@online.microsoft.com> wrote in
> > > message
> > > > >> >> > news:uIKNB$7BFHA.3528@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > > > >> >> >> The most common cause for this behavior is a buggy driver for
> > > your
> > > > >> >> >> PC's
> > > > >> >> >> Ethernet card; this doesn't appear to be the cause in your
> case
> > > > > given
> > > > >> >> >> that
> > > > >> >> >> this used to work and that you're running the latest driver.
> The
> > > > > next
> > > > >> >> >> more
> > > > >> >> >> common cause is firmware issues with switches/routers.
> > > > >> >> >>
> > > > >> >> >> Few questions:
> > > > >> >> >> - Have you rebooted both your PC and Xbox recently?
> > > > >> >> >> - What have you changed/installed/removed on your PC between
> the
> > > > > time
> > > > >> >> >> that
> > > > >> >> >> things worked well and when the problem appeared?
> > > > >> >> >> - What is your full network topology, including all routers,
> > > > > switches,
> > > > >> >> >> PCs,
> > > > >> >> >> etc.? What if anything has changed on your network between
> the
> > > time
> > > > >> > this
> > > > >> >> >> worked and now?
> > > > >> >> >> - Have you tried directly connecting your PC to the Xbox via
> a
> > > > >> > crossover
> > > > >> >> >> cable, eliminating all of your switches, routers, etc.?
> > > > >> >> >> - While TV is streaming to your Xbox, open Task Manager and
> click
> > > > >> >> >> on
> > > > >> > the
> > > > >> >> >> Networking tab; next select View --> Update Speed --> High.
> Let
> > > > >> >> >> this
> > > > >> > run
> > > > >> >> >> until you see the network congestion notification on your
> Xbox
> > > then
> > > > >> > check
> > > > >> >> >> the Networking graph - are there any major drops in
> throughput
> > > > >> >> >> (especially
> > > > >> >> >> if they drop to 0) before you saw the network congestion
> > > > > notification?
> > > > >> >> >>
> > > > >> >> >> --
> > > > >> >> >> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and
> confers
> > > no
> > > > >> >> >> rights.
> > > > >> >> >>
> > > > >> >> >>
> > > > >> >> >> "Kraig with a K" <kraig@kraig.kom> wrote in message
> > > > >> >> >> news:%23xP%23mU6BFHA.2568@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> > > > >> >> >>> Hello all,
> > > > >> >> >>>
> > > > >> >> >>> My Xbox extender has started to give me network congestion
> > > errors.
> > > > >> >> >>> It
> > > > >> >> >>> was
> > > > >> >> >>> working flawlessly for a few months, but now I can't get rid
> of
> > > > > them.
> > > > >> >> >>>
> > > > >> >> >>> I have a AMD 64, 1gb RAM, 200gb SATA drive.
> > > > >> >> >>>
> > > > >> >> >>> I've changed all the network hardware - I'm using a Linksys
> > > 10/100
> > > > >> >> >>> switch
> > > > >> >> >>> now. I've replaced the network cable from the Xbox to the
> > > > >> >> >>> Switch
> > > > >> >> >>> which
> > > > >> >> >> is
> > > > >> >> >>> about 10 metres away.
> > > > >> >> >>>
> > > > >> >> >>> I've defragmented my hard drive. I've tried disabling the
> > > > > antivirus
> > > > >> >> >>> real
> > > > >> >> >>> time protection (Kaspersky). I've updated the network
> drivers
> > > > >> >> >>> (Chaintech
> > > > >> >> >>> Motherboard on-board Realtek). There are no additional
> > > processes
> > > > >> >> >>> running
> > > > >> >> >>> and the Extender monitor has zero bars - only one when it's
> > > > > attached
> > > > >> > and
> > > > >> >> >>> playing. The computer is clean - I barely use it only to
> record
> > > > >> >> >>> TV
> > > > >> > and
> > > > >> >> >> burn
> > > > >> >> >>> files, there has been no major or minor configuration change
> in
> > > > >> >> >>> months
> > > > >> >> >>> on
> > > > >> >> >>> it.
> > > > >> >> >>>
> > > > >> >> >>> I installed Network Spy 2.0 to monitor the bandwidth and
> when
> > > I'm
> > > > >> >> >>> playing
> > > > >> >> >>> recorded TV on the Xbox, it never, ever even goes beyond 20%
> of
> > > > >> >> >>> the
> > > > >> >> >>> bandwidth available.
> > > > >> >> >>>
> > > > >> >> >>> I'm frustrated now, I can't watch TV very well on the Xbox -
> > > every
> > > > > 5
> > > > >> >> >> seconds
> > > > >> >> >>> it'll get congested, then it'll become uncongested for 1
> minute,
> > > > > then
> > > > >> >> >>> back
> > > > >> >> >>> to 5-10 seconds of congestion.. the cycle continues.
> > > > >> >> >>>
> > > > >> >> >>> I've even tried reducing the recording quality of the shows
> to
> > > > > "low"
> > > > >> >> >>> and
> > > > >> >> >>> that doesn't solve the problem either. This has only
> started
> > > to
> > > > >> > happen
> > > > >> >> >> in
> > > > >> >> >>> the past 2 weeks... the computer has all the available
> updates
> > > on
> > > > >> >> >>> it.
> > > > >> >> >>>
> > > > >> >> >>> Xbox Live works perfectly - no network errors. I've hooked
> my
> > > > > laptop
> > > > >> > up
> > > > >> >> >> to
> > > > >> >> >>> the network cable as well and there doesn't appear to be any
> > > > > cabling
> > > > >> >> >>> issues - but then again, I swapped cables with a new one
> to..
> > > but
> > > > >> > still
> > > > >> >> >> have
> > > > >> >> >>> the same problem.
> > > > >> >> >>>
> > > > >> >> >>> Anyone else have any ideas?
> > > > >> >> >>>
> > > > >> >> >>> Thank you
> > > > >> >> >>>
> > > > >> >> >>> Kraig
> > > > >> >> >>>
> > > > >> >> >>>
> > > > >> >> >>
> > > > >> >> >>
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