Re: MCE 2005 doesn't really support HDTV yet

From: Phil Taylor (philipt_at_private-citizen-sorta.com)
Date: 11/18/04 

Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 08:33:26 -0800

"marko" <marko@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:537B1242-93F1-48E8-990A-DFB879148A35@microsoft.com...
> Hi Phil,
>
> Thanks for the quick response. Unfortunately it didn't really address my
> problem, and I don't understand your statement "if the analog card gets
> you
> both SD and HD tv its hardly worthless.".
>
> My point was that my OTA digital tuner card will "get me both SD and HD
> TV",
> and it works fine with the OEM-supplied software.

in theory yes.

in practice with MCE, no. it requires a driver from the card vendor. it is
not magic, and MS does not provide the drivers. what is your point again?
that MS, who is not responsible for providing the drivers, is somehow
responsible? I dont buy it.

>
> However MCE doesn't even recognize the card at all, as an analog card OR
> as
> a HDTV card. I am under the impression that it can't recognize it as
> analog
> because it doesn't have a built-in MPEG2 decoder, and it doesn't recognize
> it
> as HDTV because my PC doesn't have another analog tuner.

if it doesnt have a hw-encoder, then the vendor has to qualify their sw
encoder like ATI did for the AIW.

given there are ATI HDTV Wonders in this configuration and the ATI driver
can disable the analog portion to enable the card to work as an HD card with
MCE I suspect the vendor of this card could do the same thing.

of course, I could be wrong.

I have to ask, why did you buy a card without MCE support? its the card
vendors job to provide that so why not ask them?

>
> In my opinion, that's not what I would call "really supporting HDTV". I
> don't think I'm bashing MS; I'm stating a fact! Of course I'm glad MCE
> 2005
> has some HDTV support, but their advertising is a bit misleading. And in
> my
> case I can't use it at all even though I have a very capable tuner card
> that
> tunes both HDTV and analog channels. Does anyone here know if MCE will
> support a single HDTV tuner in the near future?

when you say "doesnt really" given it supports 1 of the 3 ( or 4 depending
on how you classify OTA HD on cable ) you are not stating a fact, are
stating your opinion that OTA HD support doesnt count, and are bashing.

at least admit it.

there has been no official word on the future of HD support in MCE from MS.

>
> I agree that cable and satellite HDTV is currently a big (and greedy) mess
> and probably will be for a while.

cable will be fixed sooner due to OpenCable and a well-defined,
well-understood process to get to the sort of open system support the PC is
known for. its a huge step for the cable industry.

its a guess, but I would guess that certainly if MCE vNext doesnt support
CableHD, then MCE vNext+1 will.

again its a guess, but if the MCE team holds to the same schedule that would
mean 1-2 years out.

at least that should set folks expectations. it certainly cant be any sooner
than that.

what the satellite folk are going to do wrt open systems and allowing
interop, I would have to research it. I suspect if they dont do something
they become dinosaurs.

>
> -Tim
>
> "Phil Taylor" wrote:
>
>> there are 3 "flavors" of HD today:
>> 1)OTA HD, unencrypted
>> 2)cable HD, encrypted
>> 3)satellite HD, encrypted.
>>
>> so by definition MCE does support HD as it supports one of the flavors.
>>
>> its true this is unsatisfying for many, but going as far as your
>> statement -
>> thats just plain wrong.
>>
>> as far as the architecture of MCE requiring an analog tuner - as I posted
>> in
>> another thread, the guide and the analog tuner are coupled today in the
>> architecture. look at how the HD channels are added to the guide and you
>> can
>> see the issue with having no analog tuner today. thats not a simple fix.
>>
>> the issue with the hybrid cards that support both analog and digital in a
>> single device is, given the ATSC OTA feature add occurred late - MS had
>> to
>> make hard choices to bring it to market at all.
>>
>> would you rather no HD support at all?
>>
>> cable is likely to come first given that the CableLabs spec has stopped
>> changing and the CableLabs certification process is well understood.
>>
>> as I understand it, satellite MSOs are not obligated to support the
>> CableLabs standard and can continue with their proprietary networks.
>>
>> maybe once the cable MSOs get success with MCE and CableLabs support the
>> satellite folk will take notice. without their help, its impossible to
>> enable satellite support for MCE unless they support a well defined
>> standard
>> like DVB-S or CableLabs.
>>
>> as far as when MCE will add cable HD support, thats the 1m dollar
>> question.
>>
>> obviously MS knows and understands the limitations, and understands the
>> communities' desire for cable and satellite HD. but MS typically has
>> played
>> new MCE features close to the vest and thus I would not hold my breath
>> for a
>> feature pre-announce.
>>
>> finally, if the analog card gets you both SD and HD tv its hardly
>> worthless.
>> an extra expense over the theoretical yes. but how often in life do we
>> see
>> the theoretical minimum or maximum? really?
>>
>> I know it "feels good" to bash MS, but at least do it for something
>> realistic.
>>
>> "marko" <marko@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> news:02A9E2BA-99D0-45C0-B9E4-36B286D17014@microsoft.com...
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > I am wondering if, or when, MCE will ever support using a single HDTV
>> > tuner?
>> >
>> > Although the current HDTV article by Katrina Schwieterman doesn't
>> > mention
>> > it, there is currenty no way to use HDTV unless you ALSO buy, and
>> > install,
>> > ANOTHER (analog) tuner card, and IMO that sucks.
>> >
>> > My HDTV card (a DVICO FusionHDTV G3) is fully capable of tuning any
>> > analog
>> > or digital signal, but MCE won't even recognize it unless I also
>> > install
>> > another analog tuner card. I don't want to buy ANOTHER (useless for
>> > me)
>> > tuner card just so I can use my current HDTV card!
>> >
>> > Please let me know if, or when, this strange limitation will be fixed.
>> > If
>> > it won't be, is there ANY kind of hack that will let me use my HDTV
>> > card
>> > without buying another tuner?
>> >
>> > Thanks in advance,
>> > Mark
>>
>>
>>

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