Re: DO NOT BUY FROM ZTGROUP!

From: Phil Taylor (ptaylor_at_private-citizen.com)
Date: 02/29/04 

Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 12:33:28 -0800

no, I am not in PR. perhaps if you search these newsgroups archives, you
will see my posts. the most major one wrt MCE was about the breadth of ATI
support for MCE 2004 from back in Sept-Oct last fall. as well as other posts
trying to be helpful. so I am not a new arrival here.

dont prejudge me because of your being upset with ATI over the AIW driver
issue, thats just plain unfair.

I am in fact a newsgroup MVP for DirectX technologies and a past MS employee
on the DirectX team, first as D3D technical evangelist and ending as DX SDK
PM and PM for Managed-DX. and wrote the Driving DirectX MSDN colum for about
2 years. all before I joined ATI. so I have some bona fides as far as
helping people. go ahead and search the DX groups and see the >5000 posts I
have made over the last few years helping people. there are more than a few
testimonials as to my help.

having now defended myself from various ad hominems, lets move on to the
issue at hand.

wrt comments that ZT and hard disk failures are somehow related to the ATI
eHome Wonder component in the machine, lets consider, ask questions, gather
data, and make a judgement as to what is likely and what.

my factual claim is, regardless of the support policies of ZT, the hard disk
failures on their machines are hard to correlate to TV tuner/capture cards.
and that would be regardless of vendor choice for said component.

please provide back up for your claim there is some correlation, so we the
community can judge and learn. please provide a technical basis for said
assertion.

while I sympathize with the feelings of a dedicated few who are longing for
AIW drivers compatibile with MCE; that yearning for additional support is
not a reason to cast doubts and aspersion across all our other product
lines, as you and Tom persist in doing.

call a spade a spade.

say we have not made good progress with AIW driver support for the MCE add
on market. thats fair.

going from there to tar'ing and feather'ing all ATI products, from 9xxx
Radeon display cards, to eHome Wonders, or to the new ATI HD Wonder - thats
unfair, doesnt make sense, and just plain doesnt help make your case. in
case you havent noticed, the 9600 and 9800 based products kick *** on PS
2.0 gaming as well as previous shader generations. so going from "I am
unhappy that ATI doesnt provide upgrade support for AIW in MCE" to "all ATI
products are bad" is not rational and you are just plain giving out bad
advice to people.

so if you feel any real linkage is possible between ZT hard disk failures
and eHome Wonders - lay out your facts. I am completely reasonable in
listening to depictions of actual issues and giving good advice on how to
proceed. my >5000 posts prove that, incontrovertibly.

I do want to comment on the trend line here before we let this go to bed.
similar product attack threads have been seen here before, eg the eHome
Wonder for sale thread. and the extremetech.com forums shut down a similar
attack thread on the HD Wonder card as part of the preview of that product.
so this is at least the 3rd time product attack threads have eminated from
unrelated threads that involve ATI in some other form. that represents a
pattern and trend that isnt really justified and just isnt likely to help
get support any faster. such threads do need to be replied to and gently
pointed out how illogical they are.

again, call a spade a spade ( as I am willing to do wrt to AIW MCE support )
and admit this is sour grapes and has no basis in fact wrt the product at
hand.

I think in the long run you are going to be surprised by what ATI is doing,
in the positve, wrt to supporting MCE. I know thats hard to prove currently
given the AIW driver support history but thats only 1 product line out of
several we offer for MCE.

"CrAzY" <_MCE_@MobStarz.Com> wrote in message
news:%23cGXztm$DHA.2660@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> Welcome the Newsgroups Philip - glad you can join us for conversations
that
> protect and promote your products.
>
> However, I do see how a company that has poor tech support can be related
to
> the only company to agree to use the ATI eHome Wonder cards - if the only
> company that will use them in an MCE has poor tech support - are you going
> to continue to promote that company? It's a shame that you have to come
here
> in attempts to do damage control for a company that is loosing end-user
> support in the MCE realm ... Oh wait, not only in MCE, but in the Home
> Theater PC realm all together. The inability to support simple requested
> features in driver releases has gone unheard, for way to long ...
>
> Again - the only company to use the eHome Wonder also has poor customer
> service ... you're obviously in some sort of public relations, and I'm
> certain you're familiar with marketing strategies - numbers can always be
> skewed to your advantage ... well -
>
> ZTGroup = Poor Tech Support
> ZTGroup = Only OEM to use ATI eHome Wonder
>
> I'll let people come to their own deductions for the rest ...
>
> I'm with Tom on this one and notice your only replies here thus far have
> been to combat any negative statements towards ATI ... what a shame ...
>
> --
> ============
> :: CrAzY ::
> ============
> "Phil Taylor" <ptaylor@private-citizen.com> wrote in message
> news:e7l4ozU$DHA.3536@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> > again, hard disk failures dont relate to capture or graphics cards.
> >
> > sorry the qa torqued you, I cant change that.
> >
> > "Tom" <tintruder@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:OmHVrcO$DHA.4060@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> > > Well, somebody a while back did proudly announce ZT Group was the only
> OEM
> > > customer ATI managed to land for the eHW card.....sounds like a good,
> > > competent group to associate the ATI name with.
> > >
> > > Nonetheless, I will continue to steer people away from ATI with
respect
> to
> > > MCE as the opportunity arises until you folks change your practices,
> > support
> > > users who spent a bundle for your products, and be honest for a change
> > about
> > > the topic and supporting facts.
> > >
> > > I even get flattering emails from people claiming to be ATI employees
> (and
> > > the originating IP Addresses suggest they may really be) who agree
> > > wholeheartedly that you folks made a bad decision and stuck with it
for
> > all
> > > the wrong reasons. They hate seeing their company get a bad rap for
> > > something so easily fixed, but realize that if internal common-sense
> won't
> > > solve the problem, perhaps external bad PR will.
> > >
> > > The Q&A your folks authored for TheGreenButton.com was so incredibly
> > > condescending and disrespectful that it probably did more to sour
people
> > on
> > > ATI than anything I could say.
> > >
> > > Any other big OEM sales with those eHWs?
> > > Seriously, I'm glad you are selling some, but you'd take away the
> > > "grey-market" smell if you'd support customers with drivers on the
> website
> > > and maybe even a little discussion of the card from a technical
> > perspective
> > > rather than just the marketing fluff.
> > >
> > > MCE etc. isn't going away, and if you guys would pull your heads out,
it
> > > would only take a few genuine, helpful, positive gestures to the MCE
> > > enthusiast community to start mending your reputation and earn back
some
> > of
> > > the trust (and revenue) that has been needlessly squandered.
> > >
> > > Phil, there's too much stuff changing in the market. Too many
competing
> > > technologies and emergent choices. You guys need to offer consumers a
> > better
> > > roadmap because too many of ATIs efforts seem to be reinventing the
> wheel
> > > and moving away from the mainstream.
> > >
> > > We know you have good hardware. No argument. But the rest of your
> > > cometitors, even those with headquarters 8000 miles away in Asia,
> instead
> > of
> > > right next door, are kicking your *** with new products, tantalizing
> > > information, and damn good, highly responsive customer support.
> > >
> > > For instance, your new HDTV Wonder... you didn't do anything to
> > > differentiate it from the other HDTV cards that have been on the
market
> > for
> > > 2 years already. If it has an advantage, perhaps somebody ought to say
> so.
> > > What have we been waiting two more years for? OTA HDTV?
> > >
> > > And while you guys sure like to keep secrets, there must be some
"good"
> > > things about upcoming products you could tell us to create enough
> > excitement
> > > for us to wait for ATI rather than go buy competing products.
> > > Speaking of ATI secrets, you gotta do something to offset the
> ExtremeTech
> > > report that says the HDTVWonder app is not yet integrated into MMC and
> > there
> > > is no working dual-mode Guide yet....boy THAT was good press....get a
> $250
> > > HDTV card and have drivers that suck...how'd you manage to let that
> tidbit
> > > out?
> > >
> > > I guess the bottom line is that one pissed off customer has more
effect
> > than
> > > 100 satisfied customers, huh?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Philip Taylor [ATI]" <ptaylor@online.newsgroup-poster.ati.com> wrote
in
> > > message news:OqUKHnL$DHA.2316@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > > > Its hard to see there is any direct linkage between failures on disk
> and
> > > the
> > > > capture card.
> > > >
> > > > I think its a bit unfair to use this post to forward your agenda
Tom.
> > Its
> > > > unfortunate that your unhappiness over the AIW driver situation is
> > > clouding
> > > > your opinion of ATI, but be clear about thats whats driving your
> > repeated
> > > > comments here and in other forums.
> > > >
> > > > "Tom" <tintruder@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:eyGchXI$DHA.3500@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > > > > Interestingly, ZT Group is one of the OEMs who has chosen to use
the
> > ATI
> > > > > eHomeWonder tuner.
> > > > >
> > > > > Everybody else uses Avermedia, Emuzed or Hauppague (except that
one
> > Dell
> > > > > using the customized AIW9000 and secret software).
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "ztgroupsucks" <junkmail1513@mail.NOSPAM.com> wrote in message
> > > > > news:%235ZHpGI$DHA.1212@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> > > > > > I helped my brother configure and purchase a MCE computer
through
> ZT
> > > > > > Group. I figured they use name brand parts and simply assemble
the
> > > > > > computer so I had little concerns. WELL what a mistake that
was!!!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Besides several little problems that they could not resolve the
> > system
> > > > > > died one day. It was reporting a READ DISK ERROR on boot. OK
> sounds
> > > > > > like a Hard Drive failure, should not be a problem because this
> > > > > > system was configured with a MIRROR RAID (2x80GB drive
Mirrored).
> > > > > > Well I was wrong again.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To make a very long story short we sent the computer back to be
> > fixed.
> > > > > > They could not retrieve ANY data from either hard drive
(remember
> > > > > > these were mirrored) and further more could not determine what
> > caused
> > > > > > the problem. The technician kept telling me that "computers are
> not
> > > > > > perfect" and a RAID MIRROR is not a guarantee of data
redundancy.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > After waiting almost a full week after it arrived at ZT Group
they
> > > > > > could not tell me what went wrong and kept stating "computers
are
> > not
> > > > > > perfect". They refused to refund my brothers money and would not
> > > > > > replace any hardware cause they could not find a problem.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Furthermore at least 5+ hours of our time was wasted trying to
> > > > > > troubleshoot the system over the phone. The tech support person
> > > > > > simply had no clue.. He tried to tell me that the data on one
hard
> > > > > > drive became corrupt and therefore "when mirrored" to the other
> disk
> > > > > > other disk was too corrupt. I explained that MIRRORED drives do
> not
> > > > > > copy from one disk to the other but the RAID controller simply
> > > > > > duplicates the data and sends it to each disk therefore each
disk
> is
> > > > > > independent of the others failure.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I WOULD NEVER EVER DO BUSINESS AGAIN WITH ZT GROUP!!!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > MCE User..
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Posted via http://www.xpMCE.com
> > > > > > Everything about Windows XP Media Center Edition
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

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