Re: NNTP links in OE or 40tude Dialog (Plain Text)

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"Michel Merlin" <michel.merlin@xxxxxxxxxxx> a écrit dans le message de news:
%23yW%23XUUpHHA.2044@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
NNTP links in OE or 40tude Dialog (HTML)Thanks for your reply - and your
useful link. However, after first being happy thinking it brought a
solution, I was finally disappointed seeing it did not. Says your link:

« ...and thus nntp URLs do not designate globally accessible resources.
Thus, the news: form of URL is preferred as a way of identifying news
articles ».

And for the "news: form of URL", they are not "universal" either; my
numerous personal tests over years, and the few examples in the current
thread, are enough to make me think (so far, and while waiting for further
useful examples from you or anyone) that addresses starting with "news" fail
to work in too many cases to deserve anything like "universal"; I found none
working in more cases than the ones I am using (see "Parent Message" headers
in all my posts), which I would not call "universal" at all. Hence my
(rather short I admit) phrase "there is no URL (Universal Resource Locator)
in *news*".

I tested your links:

nttp://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress/evv$Z87lHHA.4032@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
nttp://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress/336180

Pasting the 1st one in the IE address bar does (in my case) bring the
correct item, pasting the 2nd fails. Both are not clickable in OE6 or IE6 (I
didn't test in FF or TB), and little known, hence IMO not reliable enough so
far for daily use with tiers. In OE there is no default-prepared "nntp"
suffix (OE only offers "file", "ftp", "gopher", "http", "https", "mailto",
"news", "elnet", "wais"); when writing in HTML (see HTML version of this
post below) I can edit this address into an "nntp" link, but it doesn't work
(opens an IE window with a 404 "The page cannot be displayed"). I find it
interesting though, and will consider it some time.

BTW, what do you call "WM"?

I thank you however for this interesting link (that I didn't know) and POV.

Versailles, Sat 2 Jun 2007 20:37:35 +0200


----- Parent Message (was in HTML - links are clickable) -----
From: "Michel Merlin" <michel.merlin@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Newsgroup:
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress
Message: news://msnews.microsoft.com/e9L3hNUpHHA.3952@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Sat 2 Jun 2007 20:25:20 +0200 (18:25:20 GMT)
Subject: NNTP links in OE or 40tude Dialog (HTML)

Thanks for your reply - and your useful link. However, after first being
happy thinking it brought a solution, I was finally disappointed seeing it
did not. Says your link:

« ...and thus nntp URLs do not designate globally accessible resources.
Thus, the news: form of URL is preferred as a way of identifying news
articles ».

And for the "news: form of URL", they are not "universal" either; my
numerous personal tests over years, and the few examples in the current
thread, are enough to make me think (so far, and while waiting for further
useful examples from you or anyone) that addresses starting with "news" fail
to work in too many cases to deserve anything like "universal"; I found none
working in more cases than the ones I am using (see "Parent Message" headers
in all my posts), which I would not call "universal" at all. Hence my
(rather short I admit) phrase "there is no URL (Universal Resource Locator)
in *news*".

I tested your links:

nttp://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress/evv$Z87lHHA.4032@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

nttp://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress/336180

Pasting the 1st one in the IE address bar does (in my case) bring the
correct item, pasting the 2nd fails. Both are not clickable in OE6 or IE6 (I
didn't test in FF or TB), and little known, hence IMO not reliable enough so
far for daily use with tiers. In OE there is no default-prepared "nntp"
suffix (OE only offers "file", "ftp", "gopher", "http", "https", "mailto",
"news", "elnet", "wais"); when writing in HTML (see HTML version of this
post below) I can edit this address into an "nntp" link, but it doesn't work
(opens an IE window with a 404 "The page cannot be displayed"). I find it
interesting though, and will consider it some time.

BTW, what do you call "WM"?

I thank you however for this interesting link (that I didn't know) and POV.

Versailles, Sat 2 Jun 2007 20:25:20 +0200


----- Parent Message (links are clickable) -----
From: "Robert Aldwinckle" <robald@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Newsgroup:
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress
Message: news://msnews.microsoft.com/ucweVTRpHHA.3944@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Sat 2 Jun 2007 08:53:20 -0400 (12:53:20 GMT)
Subject: Re: Clicking News links in 40tude Dialog

Unfortunately there is no URL (Universal Resource Locator) in *news*,

Actually there is. It starts with nntp:// <eg>

http://www.freesoft.org/CIE/RFC/1738/27.htm

<quote>
A nntp URL take the form:

nntp://<host>:<port>/<newsgroup-name>/<article-number>
</quote>

- Newsgroup (works):
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress

Only in OE, WM, etc. RFC allows this and it works:

news:microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress

- Message 1 (works):
news://msnews.microsoft.com/evv$Z87lHHA.4032@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Only in OE, WM, etc.

- Message 2 (works only if the message is present on the default news
server):
news:evv$Z87lHHA.4032@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Message 3 (fails):

news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress/evv$Z87lHHA.4032@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

but

nttp://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress/evv$Z87lHHA.4032@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

does (only in OE, WM, etc.)

Unfortunately, the defined use of that URL prefix requires the message
number (e.g. the Message-ID's current slot in the server's cache) instead of
the Message-ID.

That Message contains

Xref: TK2MSFTNGP01.phx.gbl
microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress:336180

So, the real test for 40tude with that Message-ID would be:

nttp://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress/336180

but that would be useless for OE, WM, etc.

FYI

Robert Aldwinckle
---


----- Parent Message (links are clickable) -----
From: "Michel Merlin" <michel.merlin@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Newsgroup:
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress
Message: news://msnews.microsoft.com/uKFbeyBpHHA.5092@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Fri 1 Jun 2007 09:15:20 +0200 (07:15:20 GMT)
Subject: Clicking News links in 40tude Dialog

Unfortunately there is no URL (Universal Resource Locator) in *news*,
because the news system has never been thought as a whole, and has been
built instead day after day by adapting what was used for group mailing
lists. Now those mailing lists were using the *mail* system, that of course
has no URL since mail resources are private hence need no *universal*
locators (While of course *web* resources do require universal locators).

To make for URLs I built a few pseudo-URL formats, by testing (in IE and OE,
and a few times in FF and TB) and trying and failing and successing; you can
see them in the headers of my "Parent Messages" at the bottom of all my
messages. Here are (on our example) those pseudo-URL formats:

- Newsgroup (works):
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress
- Message 1 (works):
news://msnews.microsoft.com/evv$Z87lHHA.4032@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Message 2 (works only if the message is present on the default news
server): news:evv$Z87lHHA.4032@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Message 3 (fails):
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress/evv$Z87lHHA.4032@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

As you see I use only the 2 first formats, that work reliably (in IE and
OE), and not the 2 others, that don't.
Thanks for your reporting that http://www.40tude.com/dialog fails on
"Message 1" and brings the Newsgroup (instead of the Message) when clicking
"Message 3".
Please could you in addition click (in 40tude) on links "Newsgroup" and
"Message 2", and report. TIA,

Versailles, Fri 1 Jun 2007 09:15:20 +0200


----- Parent Message (links are clickable) -----
From: "N. Miller" <anonymous@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Newsgroup:
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress
Message: news://msnews.microsoft.com/147zpvn3ukk7d.dlg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tue 29 May 2007 08:24:25 -0700 (15:24:25 GMT)
Subject: Re: Which newsreader are ou using? Which default news server?

- Which newsreader are you using?

40tude Dialog.

- Is it configured properly? How?

Yes. Server is set to 'msnews.microsoft.com'

- Which news server have you as default?

There is no "default" news server. There are distinct "Identities", each of
which is associated to a specific news server. From the Identity field I get
a drop down menu with a list of the configured "Identities".

- Is « news://msnews.microsoft.com/evv$Z87lHHA.4032@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx »
(without the French quotes and their spaces) displayed as a link (i.e.
underlined,
blue initially, purple when visited), and this for the link *entire* (i.e.
from
"news://"; to "phx.gbl")?

Yes.

In OE, the way I use to write the address for the message
does work even if the concerned news server
(here "msnews.microsoft.com") is NOT my default news server.
But it can be different in some other newsreaders,
hence my questions.

The construct you use points to a Message-ID string
("evv$Z87lHHA.4032@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx"), not a group.
40tude Dialog parsed that line looking for a group called,
"evv$Z87lHHA.4032@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx";
and, naturally, can't find such a group because there is no such group on
'msnews.microsoft.com'.

If I copy the URL as you posted it and paste it into the Opera 9.21 address
bar, Opera also throws an error:

| Mail and chat
|
msnews.microsoft.com (temporary)

| 411 no such newsgroup

This suggests that your URL is badly formatted. Trying it this way in Opera:

|
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress/evv$Z87lHHA.4032@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Opera will now subscribe me to the group,
"microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress" instead of
throwing a "no such group" error.

It remains to be seen (after I post this) if 40tude Dialog will go directly
to the message (as Opera did not).

--
Norman
~Shine, bright morning light,
~now in the air the spring is coming.
~Sweet, blowing wind,
~singing down the hills and valleys.


----- Parent Message (links are clickable) -----
From: "Michel Merlin" <michel.merlin@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Newsgroup:
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress
Message: news://msnews.microsoft.com/uvJJhbToHHA.1476@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Mon 28 May 2007 16:45:45 +0200 (14:45:45 GMT)
Subject: Which newsreader are ou using? Which default news server?

(Sorry I didn't revisit here earlier)

Today Mon 28 May 2007 16:12 +0200 in my newsreader (OE 6.00.2900.2180),
clicking:
news://msnews.microsoft.com/evv$Z87lHHA.4032@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
does load me the required message:

« In an attempt at stopping the Cross-Posting, please see... »

First questions (just to make sure):

- Which newsreader are you using?
- Is it configured properly? How?
- Which news server have you as default?
- Is « news://msnews.microsoft.com/evv$Z87lHHA.4032@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx »
(without the French quotes and their spaces) displayed as a link (i.e.
underlined, blue initially, purple when visited), and this for the link
*entire* (i.e. from "news://"; to "phx.gbl")?

I guess this is in facts one of the myriads results of the addressing system
in news (was just built day after day by extending what was designed for
email, then used for mailing lists in early newsgroups - and never got the
time to be really thought and designed for itself; e.g. no URLs).

In OE, the way I use to write the address for the message does work even if
the concerned news server (here "msnews.microsoft.com") is NOT my default
news server. But it can be different in some other newsreaders, hence my
questions.

Versailles, Mon 28 May 2007 16:45:45 +0200


----- Parent Message (links are clickable) -----
From: "N. Miller" <anonymous@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Newsgroup:
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress
Message: news://msnews.microsoft.com/1b4q7s8gqdafy.dlg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Sat 19 May 2007 18:27:22 -0700 (Sun 20 May 2007 01:27:22 GMT)
Subject: Re: (Sorry I misposted) Outlook Express and AntiSPAM checking?
(Ending the X-posting)

Interesting. My reader throws up an error: "Could not find group
"evv$Z87lHHA.4032@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx"". You *could* set a "Followup-To:"
to direct replies to the related group.
--
Norman
~Where is the place I'm going to?
~Now a voice is beginning to sing
~It's reaching me, leading me...
~Raising me to heaven


----- Parent Message (links are clickable) -----
From: "Michel Merlin" <michel.merlin@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Newsgroup:
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress
Message: news://msnews.microsoft.com/OMmwJ88lHHA.492@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wed 16 May 2007 17:29:45 +0200 (15:29:45 GMT)
Subject: (Sorry I misposted) Outlook Express and AntiSPAM checking? (Ending
the X-posting)

Sorry I misposted. I just corrected by posting completed and in the right
place, see parent AND "RELATED" messages below.

Versailles, Wed 16 May 2007 17:29:45 +0200


----- Parent Message (links are clickable) -----
From: "Michel Merlin" <michel.merlin@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Newsgroup:
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress
Message: news://msnews.microsoft.com/evv$Z87lHHA.4032@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wed 16 May 2007 15:35:40 +0200 (13:35:40 GMT)
Subject: Outlook Express and AntiSPAM checking? (Ending the X-posting)

In an attempt at stopping the Cross-Posting, please see my reply in the
other NG...
.............

Versailles, Wed 16 May 2007 15:35:40 +0200


----- RELATED Message (links are clickable) -----
From: "Michel Merlin" <michel.merlin@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Newsgroup:
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress
Message: news://msnews.microsoft.com/OX0Y5U8lHHA.4872@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wed 16 May 2007 16:19:29 +0200 (14:19:29 GMT)
Subject: Outlook Express and AntiSPAM checking? (Ending the X-posting)

In an attempt at stopping the Cross-Posting, please see my reply in the
other NG (links are clickable):

From: "Michel Merlin" <michel.merlin@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Newsgroup:
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.outlookexpress.general
Message:
news://msnews.microsoft.com/%23Vf8Ys7lHHA.1216@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wed 16 May 2007 15:07:00 +0200 (13:07:00 GMT)
Subject: Outlook Express and AntiSPAM checking?

(Ending the X-posting)
.................

Versailles, Wed 16 May 2007 16:19:30 +0200


----- Parent Message (links are clickable) -----
From: "Bruce Hagen" <Nospam@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Newsgroup:
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress,microsoft.public.outlookexpress.general
Message: news://msnews.microsoft.com/ef0BhfGYHHA.4396@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tue 6 Mar 2007 19:22:50 -0800 (Wed 7 Mar 2007 03:22:50 GMT)
Subject: Re: Outlook Express and antivirus checking

E-mail scanning is a redundant option that wreaks havoc with OE...
....................


.

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