Re: OE and Hotmail
From: David Kelsey (david_kelseyNO_at_hotmail.com)
Date: 10/02/04
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Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 21:19:04 +0100
I asked Metronet how big an attachment I could send, and here's their reply:
Mr Kelsey,
I don't have the exact value, but it's somewhere in the region of 100MB when
using smtp.metronet.co.uk
Regards,
Oliver.
I don't suppose anyone has ever put that to the test!
David
PA Bear wrote:
> Some observations and facts upon reading your epistle, Mr. Kelsey, in
> no particular order:
>
> Please keep in mind that MSN/Hotmail is still a free email account.
> Accessing the account in OE or OL is what MSN/Hotmail is beginning to
> charge for...and cheaply, too: At US$19.95/year, Hotmail Plus costs
> 5½¢ a day (that's .044 € or .03 £) for unlimited sending/receiving. For
> that money, in addition to the ability to access the accounts in
> a Mail Client, subscribers also get:
>
> - 2GB storage space (vs. the default 250MB inbox),
>
> - the ability to send/receive attachments of up to 20MB (vs. 10MB
> default; Try either in your ISP's account!),
>
> - no account expiration (as long as your accouns in good
> standing), and
> - no ads in your messages.
>
> All MSN/Hotmail accountholders also have access to MSN Calendar
> again, a privilege withdrawn from free accounts about a year ago,
> which can be shared with other MSN/Hotmail accountholders.
>
> Tell me this, does BT give you your telephone service, local,
> national and international, free of charge? Does the Royal Mail let
> you send letters, postcards and packages all over the world for free?
> (Of course, Hotmail is about as reliable as BT and Royal Mail when it
> comes to on time delivery <eg> and all three couldn't care less about
> making anything convenient for you.)
>
> You heard it here first: If you do indeed have 5,000 contacts in your
> Yahoo addressbook, I advise you *not* to synch it with Address
> Book...unless you don't care about being able to *see* your contacts
> listed in Address Book or Contacts pane.
>
> All Hotmail accounts are personal accounts. Using a Hotmail account
> for business purposes is a violation of MSN/Hotmail's User Agreement.
>
> As http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=878462#appliesto clearly points
> out, the new policy applies to all currently supported versions (5.5,
> 6 and 6 SP1) OE versions in all currently supported OSS
> (Win98/98SE/ME, kinda/sorta, and Win NT, Win2K, WinXP and WinServer
> 2003, not just WinXP SP2.
> The problem with spam doesn't necessarily refer to *received* spam
> but, mainly, sent spam, most of it virus-laden. How much spam is
> there these days?
>
> "Spam filtering company Postini is reporting that the percentage of
> email processed by them which was identified as spam has dropped
> between the months of August and September (2004). Unfortunately, the
> number only dropped from 76% to 75%, meaning that the vast majority
> of email is still spam. According to Postini, more than 5.6 billion
> pieces of email went through their system during the month of
> September, and they stopped nearly 79 million instances of viruses."
> cf. http://spam.weblogsinc.com/entry/8928259724858914/
>
> Mind you, that's just mail that went through Postini's system!
>
> While MS may be beginning to return some shareholders money in the
> form of dividends, I can assure you that *none* of these monies was
> generated by Hotmail. As for "lobbing" some of that money "towards
> the users who made those profits for them," MS is doing just that. MS
> investors, by "loaning" money to MS in the form of purchasing
> shares of stock, helped "make that profit for MS", not Hotmail
> users. Have you no idea of capitalist theory? David Kelsey wrote:
>> I have just signed up with Yahoo.co.uk for e-mail, and try as I
>> might, I can't find any reference to pop 3 or smtp being chargeable.
>> Perhaps they have taken pity on us impecunious UK pensioners, and
>> let us off the hook. If
>> they start to charge, I guess I will have to look around for
>> somewhere else,
>> or use the Ypops system. Re my ISP's mail service, they do charge -
>> £7.50 per annum including pop3 and smtp - but they announced that at
>> the start and
>> gave me the free choice to accept or not. They did not suck me in
>> with a free mail service over nine years, then chop it at literally
>> no notice whatsoever. When I first heard about the apparently secret
>> MS intention to chop OE access, the info put out said the change
>> would take place gradually.
>> Well, I speak English as a mother tongue, and to me, gradually does
>> not mean
>> instantly yesterday morning.
>>
>> The main reason I don't simply ditch Hotmail is because I have
>> countless people out there who think my mail address is at Hotmail,
>> and it is kind of
>> difficult to inform them all of a new address when I don't know who
>> they all
>> are. I think my address has been unchanged since about 1995, when I
>> ditched
>> Compuserve, before MS bought Hotmail, but by no means is everyone in
>> my address book. Fortunately, Yahoo mail seems to allow 5000
>> addresses in the book, so that will be helpful in the future.
>>
>> I don't know how you all use your mail service(s), but you are
>> undoubtedly very well informed on the whole process, whereas I am
>> not, and e-mail is a convenience for me rather than my whole life. I
>> switch the machine on, go and have a coffee, and when I come back,
>> all my messages are nicely in OE, where I can scroll and click
>> through them at the same speed as I can any other file on my
>> machine. I do realise that downloading takes the same time
>> whatever method is used, but with the OE connection, I only have to
>> download
>> once, and that without any input from me. By contrast, if I use just
>> Hotmail, every time I open it, I have to download stuff in all
>> directions, because the files are not on my computer. Obviously this
>> takes longer. While
>> it has speeded up since we have had broadband access here, I pity the
>> thousands of dialup customers who just can't get broadband. And I do
>> realise
>> that if I remove a file from the server, it will disappear from OE. I
>> synchronise all folders and address books, and normally never go
>> anywhere near Hotmail itself, so all management of the mail is done
>> from OE with very
>> little bother. I can also move interesting e-mails or newsgroup
>> messages directly into various archives without having to think
>> about exceeding my storage limit. It is all very nice and sensible,
>> just like a well run office. I give thanks to Microsoft for helping
>> me to do all this for so long
>> without charge.
>>
>> Regarding the SP2 comment, have a look at KB article 878462, which
>> seems to
>> imply that you only get the immediate chop if you are running XP
>> with SP2. Otherwise, if it refers to all OSs, why say it? Who is
>> going to get the six
>> months' or whatever notice that was talked about? And what made you
>> think I
>> had uninstalled SP2?
>>
>> Business use - I don't include the people who just use a company e-
>> mail address for private mail, or small firms who operate like
>> private individuals (me for instance). But do you ever see
>> IBM@hotmail.com or any other substantial undertaking relying on
>> Hotmail for its communications? Here in the UK, the fashionable
>> business ISP for mail is Pipex, which no doubt makes charges for
>> various aspects, and is highly professional. No serious business
>> would be seen dead using Hotmail. Perhaps the people who scream
>> about losing mail should have used OE to manage it. On the spam topic, it
>> is very frequently said in the newsgroups that
>> Hotmail
>> attracts spam, probably because it has so many users. The people I
>> know who
>> do not use Hotmail can't understand my constant bitterness about
>> spam, since
>> they almost never get any. So maybe all this will be a blessing in
>> disguise.
>>
>> I can't believe you think Internet Explorer should be sold
>> separately. It is
>> a major promotional item for MS, and if it isn't ostensibly free, or
>> is unbundled, it would cause some big problems. If MS also decided,
>> presumably
>> with your blessing, to charge separately for Paint (the Hotmail among
>> graphics programs), and Outlook and Outlook Express, and the Roxio CD
>> burner, and Movie Maker, and Frontpage, and Wordpad, and Notepad, and
>> Windows Media Player and so on and on, what would they use for
>> promotion? Without the goodies, there is nothing very much to say
>> about an OS, is there? At least, not to the millions of uninformed
>> purchasers out there. Look what happened to all the stripped OSs
>> there have been over the last fifteen years. And for me, Hotmail and
>> OE is just the same as all the other
>> free apps. MS fought a major court battle to avoid having to unbundle
>> Internet Explorer. Who would buy it if it were in a straight fight
>> with all
>> its competitors? Even poor old Netscape might still be around. I
>> certainly liked it when it was free and IE didn't exist.
>>
>> For Mr. Miller - I saw the header re Yahoo - have you kept that on
>> your Hotmail server for two years? And all your other mail? Please
>> forgive my ignorance, but what do you mean when you say everybody
>> you know uses their browser to send mail? And what does
>> 'grandfathered' mean? You know, I am sure, that MS is handing back
>> substantial sums out of
>> profits
>> to its shareholders - I believe I heard a figure of $10 billion
>> mentioned. Would you agree that it would be nice if they also lobbed
>> some towards the users who made those profits for them, without the
>> constant whingeing about
>> piracy and spam costs etc.?
>>
>> David Kelsey
> <snip>
- Next message: Bruce Hagen: "Re: E-mail folder contents"
- Previous message: Bruce Hagen: "Re: xp sp2"
- In reply to: PA Bear: "Re: OE and Hotmail"
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