Re: OE and Hotmail

From: PA Bear (
Date: 10/01/04

Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 09:49:09 -0400

Some observations and facts upon reading your epistle, Mr. Kelsey, in no
particular order:

Please keep in mind that MSN/Hotmail is still a free email account.
Accessing the account in OE or OL is what MSN/Hotmail is beginning to charge
for...and cheaply, too: At US$19.95/year, Hotmail Plus costs 5 a day
(that's .044 or .03 ) for unlimited sending/receiving. For that money,
in addition to the ability to access the accounts in a Mail Client,
subscribers also get:

    - 2GB storage space (vs. the default 250MB inbox),

    - the ability to send/receive attachments of up to 20MB (vs. 10MB
default; Try either in your ISP's account!),

    - no account expiration (as long as your accouns in good standing), and

    - no ads in your messages.

All MSN/Hotmail accountholders also have access to MSN Calendar again, a
privilege withdrawn from free accounts about a year ago, which can be shared
with other MSN/Hotmail accountholders.

Tell me this, does BT give you your telephone service, local, national and
international, free of charge? Does the Royal Mail let you send letters,
postcards and packages all over the world for free? (Of course, Hotmail is
about as reliable as BT and Royal Mail when it comes to on time delivery
<eg> and all three couldn't care less about making anything convenient for

You heard it here first: If you do indeed have 5,000 contacts in your Yahoo
addressbook, I advise you *not* to synch it with Address Book...unless you
don't care about being able to *see* your contacts listed in Address Book or
Contacts pane.

All Hotmail accounts are personal accounts. Using a Hotmail account for
business purposes is a violation of MSN/Hotmail's User Agreement.

As clearly points out,
the new policy applies to all currently supported versions (5.5, 6 and 6
SP1) OE versions in all currently supported OSS (Win98/98SE/ME, kinda/sorta,
and Win NT, Win2K, WinXP and WinServer 2003, not just WinXP SP2.

The problem with spam doesn't necessarily refer to *received* spam but,
mainly, sent spam, most of it virus-laden. How much spam is there these

"Spam filtering company Postini is reporting that the percentage of email
processed by them which was identified as spam has dropped between the
months of August and September (2004). Unfortunately, the number only
dropped from 76% to 75%, meaning that the vast majority of email is still
spam. According to Postini, more than 5.6 billion pieces of email went
through their system during the month of September, and they stopped nearly
79 million instances of viruses."

Mind you, that's just mail that went through Postini's system!

While MS may be beginning to return some shareholders money in the form of
dividends, I can assure you that *none* of these monies was generated by
Hotmail. As for "lobbing" some of that money "towards the users who made
those profits for them," MS is doing just that. MS investors, by "loaning"
money to MS in the form of purchasing shares of stock, helped "make that
profit for MS", not Hotmail users. Have you no idea of capitalist theory?

~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-Windows (IE/OE)
David Kelsey wrote:
> I have just signed up with for e-mail, and try as I might, I
> can't find any reference to pop 3 or smtp being chargeable. Perhaps they
> have taken pity on us impecunious UK pensioners, and let us off the hook. 
> If
> they start to charge, I guess I will have to look around for somewhere 
> else,
> or use the Ypops system. Re my ISP's mail service, they do charge - 7.50
> per annum including pop3 and smtp - but they announced that at the start 
> and
> gave me the free choice to accept or not. They did not suck me in with a
> free mail service over nine years, then chop it at literally no notice
> whatsoever. When I first heard about the apparently secret MS intention to
> chop OE access, the info put out said the change would take place 
> gradually.
> Well, I speak English as a mother tongue, and to me, gradually does not 
> mean
> instantly yesterday morning.
> The main reason I don't simply ditch Hotmail is because I have countless
> people out there who think my mail address is at Hotmail, and it is kind 
> of
> difficult to inform them all of a new address when I don't know who they 
> all
> are. I think my address has been unchanged since about 1995, when I 
> ditched
> Compuserve, before MS bought Hotmail, but by no means is everyone in my
> address book. Fortunately, Yahoo mail seems to allow 5000 addresses in the
> book, so that will be helpful in the future.
> I don't know how you all use your mail service(s), but you are undoubtedly
> very well informed on the whole process, whereas I am not, and e-mail is a
> convenience for me rather than my whole life. I switch the machine on, go
> and have a coffee, and when I come back, all my messages are nicely in OE,
> where I can scroll and click through them at the same speed as I can any
> other file on my machine. I do realise that downloading takes the same 
> time
> whatever method is used, but with the OE connection, I only have to 
> download
> once, and that without any input from me. By contrast, if I use just
> Hotmail, every time I open it, I have to download stuff in all directions,
> because the files are not on my computer. Obviously this takes longer. 
> While
> it has speeded up since we have had broadband access here, I pity the
> thousands of dialup customers who just can't get broadband. And I do 
> realise
> that if I remove a file from the server, it will disappear from OE. I
> synchronise all folders and address books, and normally never go anywhere
> near Hotmail itself, so all management of the mail is done from OE with 
> very
> little bother. I can also move interesting e-mails or newsgroup messages
> directly into various archives without having to think about exceeding my
> storage limit. It is all very nice and sensible, just like a well run
> office. I give thanks to Microsoft for helping me to do all this for so 
> long
> without charge.
> Regarding the SP2 comment, have a look at KB article 878462, which seems 
> to
> imply that you only get the immediate chop if you are running XP with SP2.
> Otherwise, if it refers to all OSs, why say it? Who is going to get the 
> six
> months' or whatever notice that was talked about? And what made you think 
> I
> had uninstalled SP2?
> Business use - I don't include the people who just use a company e-mail
> address for private mail, or small firms who operate like private
> individuals (me for instance). But do you ever see or any
> other substantial undertaking relying on Hotmail for its communications?
> Here in the UK, the fashionable business ISP for mail is Pipex, which no
> doubt makes charges for various aspects, and is highly professional. No
> serious business would be seen dead using Hotmail. Perhaps the people who
> scream about losing mail should have used OE to manage it.
> On the spam topic, it is very frequently said in the newsgroups that 
> Hotmail
> attracts spam, probably because it has so many users. The people I know 
> who
> do not use Hotmail can't understand my constant bitterness about spam, 
> since
> they almost never get any. So maybe all this will be a blessing in 
> disguise.
> I can't believe you think Internet Explorer should be sold separately. It 
> is
> a major promotional item for MS, and if it isn't ostensibly free, or is
> unbundled, it would cause some big problems. If MS also decided, 
> presumably
> with your blessing, to charge separately for Paint (the Hotmail among
> graphics programs), and Outlook and Outlook Express, and the Roxio CD
> burner, and Movie Maker, and Frontpage, and Wordpad, and Notepad, and
> Windows Media Player and so on and on, what would they use for promotion?
> Without the goodies, there is nothing very much to say about an OS, is
> there? At least, not to the millions of uninformed purchasers out there.
> Look what happened to all the stripped OSs there have been over the last
> fifteen years. And for me, Hotmail and OE is just the same as all the 
> other
> free apps. MS fought a major court battle to avoid having to unbundle
> Internet Explorer. Who would buy it if it were in a straight fight with 
> all
> its competitors? Even poor old Netscape might still be around. I certainly
> liked it when it was free and IE didn't exist.
> For Mr. Miller - I saw the header re Yahoo - have you kept that on your
> Hotmail server for two years? And all your other mail? Please forgive my
> ignorance, but what do you mean when you say everybody you know uses their
> browser to send mail? And what does 'grandfathered' mean?
> You know, I am sure, that MS is handing back substantial sums out of 
> profits
> to its shareholders - I believe I heard a figure of $10 billion mentioned.
> Would you agree that it would be nice if they also lobbed some towards the
> users who made those profits for them, without the constant whingeing 
> about
> piracy and spam costs etc.?
> David Kelsey