Re: Problem Updating New Messages from NTTP News Server OE

From: Chad Harris (ddram32_nospam_at_yahoo.com)
Date: 07/16/04 

Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 02:52:33 -0400

Robert--

When you're given the choices

All Messages
New Messages
Headers Only

and you choose Headers only in a right click of the group on the Syncronize menu, do you delay downloading of the body of the message from the server until you actaully click the header? Is their any delay of the body of the message downloaded from the server?

Thanks,

Chad Harris
______________

"Robert Aldwinckle" <robald@techemail.com> wrote in message news:O8c6w6EaEHA.212@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> "Chad Harris" <ddram32_nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:%23C1OIrrZEHA.2944@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
>> Robert--
>>
>> If I understand you correctly then, there is some overlap in the
>> syncronization menu entries. I seem to be updating just fine by going to
>> Tools>Syncronize Newsgroup>New Messages Only. ( You could
>> choose all messages or headers only here)
>
> Actually, I was trying to warn you about some unexpected effects
> consisting of "missing" messages if you use the Watched Conversation
> feature with that command or with Synchronize Account. Synchronize All
> does not have the same problem. As a kind of theoretical workaround
> I was suggesting that you could simulate the expected effects of the other
> two commands using the Synchronize All command after appropriately
> modifying the Synchronization settings of any newsgroups (and the "Include
> this account when checking for new messages" checkboxes of any E-mail
> accounts). If you don't use the Watched Conversation feature you can
> ignore my warning and then use either of the three synchronization commands
> as desired.
>
>
>> I also meant to ask you if you could clear up my confusion on the path
>> I just referenced above from Tools, and what you accomplish when you
>> right click a particular newsgroup and click Properties>Syncronize
>> Tab>Syncronize (New Headers , New Messages (Headers and Bodies)
>> All Messages (Headers and Bodies) and from the same right click
>> context menu that yields those tabs you can choose Syncronize Settings
>> (All Messages, New Messages Only, Headers only in the slide out of the
>> right click context). I wish the terms were kept consistent.
>
> Ha! Press Backspace (e.g. to go from a newsgroup message list back
> to your subscription list for the "account" which contains that newsgroup)
> and you can add to your confusion. <EG> There you can click on the
> [Settings V] button or remove the checkmark in the box under the
> Synchronization Settings column or do more of the same right-click stuff
> you're describing. However, the advantage of this presentation is that
> you can see your changes being registered in one place. E.g. it becomes
> clearer there I think that your settings are just preferences that are applied
> whenever you use a synchronization command. In the case of the
> Synchronize Newsgroup command your settings become the defaults
> it presents to you in its dialog which you can then override as you wish.
>
> BTW thanks for pointing out the distinction being made (correctly) about
> Headers only really being New Headers Only. The best way that I know
> of to get *all* headers is to do a Synchronize Newsgroup for Headers only
> on an *empty* newsgroup. If you have already entered the newsgroup and
> seen that automatic Get Next... that I mentioned previously your Synchronize
> Newsgroup for Headers Only won't seem to do much. In that case what you
> could do is uncheck the Get Next... option and then press the Headers button
> (or equivalently use Tools, Get Next... menu command.)
>
>
> If your confusion is about how to use the synchronization methods that each
> synchronization command supports here is what I think about them.
>
> I prefer to get to All Messages as quickly as possible for my regular
> newsgroups (e.g. after a Reset) but the overhead to do that from
> a Reset is too much and typically unnecessary.
>
> All Messages is essentially what it says *all* messages and their bodies.
> The main advantage of it over New Messages Only is that if you know
> that there aren't any undownloaded old headers you can consider it as
> a way of filling in headers which don't have bodies. The most likely
> reason for these to occur is that you enter a newsgroup while online
> (thus causing that automatic Get Next... that I mentioned in a previous
> post) but they can also occur if you press Refresh or if your download
> is interrupted after the headers are generated but before all their bodies
> have been filled in. If you are using New Messages Only those
> headers will stay as headers only unless you take some action on them
> such as marking them Watched or Download Later. In either case your
> synchronize command will temporarily convert your New Messages Only
> method into (in Synchronize Newsgroup's terms) both a Get Messages
> marked for download and Get...New Messages Only. With All Messages
> such marking is unnecessary.
>
> When you are first loading up your cache you won't want to use All Messages
> (unless you really want to download all headers *and* their bodies) before
> being able to use the newsgroup. A good compromise is to do a Headers Only
> (so you know you have all possible headers). Then mark some of them
> separately for Download Later and mark the rest Ignore Conversation.
> That combination will allow you right away to change your synchronization method
> to All Messages without the extreme overhead that having that set initially would
> have caused. I would also mark the Ignore Conversation ones Read so I can
> be aware of any new additions there might be to old threads. If that happens
> all you need to do to try to get them is toggle off the Ignore Conversation
> and they will be downloaded the next time you synchronize.
> (I'm saying "try to get them" because as I previously mentioned to you
> on some servers OE's use of old sequence numbers instead of the
> full Message-ID may be problematic.)
>
> If you don't get *all* headers e.g. instead of using a synchronize command
> on an empty newsgroup you just allow an automatic Get Next... or even do
> your own manual application of the Get Next... (e.g. via the Headers button),
> you also won't want to use All Messages right away because of all the headers
> which you haven't downloaded yet which you don't have any control over.
> If you think you don't want to download them ever use the Catch-Up command.
> Then you can switch to All Messages because then you would have all the
> old headers you are ever going to get and the situation is then equivalent to the
> previous case--you can mark threads of headers only with Ignore Conversation
> in order to prevent All Messages from downloading too many old bodies
> but still let it perform its useful function of filling in bodies for any stray headers
> you may acquire and not have to worry about resorting to manual marking of them.
>
> Whew! I have never tried to write out my whole story about downloading
> and synchronization before. I'm not sure I have completely covered every
> little nuance that I'm aware of but I think it is a more complete picture than
> I have ever given elsewhere. Hope this helps.
>
>
> Robert
> ---
>
>
>> I appreciate your help in sorting these out.
>
>> Chad Harris
>
> ...
>
>