Re: Problem Updating New Messages from NTTP News Server OE

From: Robert Aldwinckle (robald_at_techemail.com)
Date: 07/12/04 

Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 16:26:15 -0400

"Chad Harris" <ddram32_nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:%23C1OIrrZEHA.2944@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> Robert--
>
> If I understand you correctly then, there is some overlap in the
> syncronization menu entries. I seem to be updating just fine by going to
> Tools>Syncronize Newsgroup>New Messages Only. ( You could
> choose all messages or headers only here)

Actually, I was trying to warn you about some unexpected effects
consisting of "missing" messages if you use the Watched Conversation
feature with that command or with Synchronize Account. Synchronize All
does not have the same problem. As a kind of theoretical workaround
I was suggesting that you could simulate the expected effects of the other
two commands using the Synchronize All command after appropriately
modifying the Synchronization settings of any newsgroups (and the "Include
this account when checking for new messages" checkboxes of any E-mail
accounts). If you don't use the Watched Conversation feature you can
ignore my warning and then use either of the three synchronization commands
as desired.

> I also meant to ask you if you could clear up my confusion on the path
> I just referenced above from Tools, and what you accomplish when you
> right click a particular newsgroup and click Properties>Syncronize
> Tab>Syncronize (New Headers , New Messages (Headers and Bodies)
> All Messages (Headers and Bodies) and from the same right click
> context menu that yields those tabs you can choose Syncronize Settings
> (All Messages, New Messages Only, Headers only in the slide out of the
> right click context). I wish the terms were kept consistent.

Ha! Press Backspace (e.g. to go from a newsgroup message list back
to your subscription list for the "account" which contains that newsgroup)
and you can add to your confusion. <EG> There you can click on the
[Settings V] button or remove the checkmark in the box under the
Synchronization Settings column or do more of the same right-click stuff
you're describing. However, the advantage of this presentation is that
you can see your changes being registered in one place. E.g. it becomes
clearer there I think that your settings are just preferences that are applied
whenever you use a synchronization command. In the case of the
Synchronize Newsgroup command your settings become the defaults
it presents to you in its dialog which you can then override as you wish.

BTW thanks for pointing out the distinction being made (correctly) about
Headers only really being New Headers Only. The best way that I know
of to get *all* headers is to do a Synchronize Newsgroup for Headers only
on an *empty* newsgroup. If you have already entered the newsgroup and
seen that automatic Get Next... that I mentioned previously your Synchronize
Newsgroup for Headers Only won't seem to do much. In that case what you
could do is uncheck the Get Next... option and then press the Headers button
(or equivalently use Tools, Get Next... menu command.)

If your confusion is about how to use the synchronization methods that each
synchronization command supports here is what I think about them.

I prefer to get to All Messages as quickly as possible for my regular
newsgroups (e.g. after a Reset) but the overhead to do that from
a Reset is too much and typically unnecessary.

All Messages is essentially what it says *all* messages and their bodies.
The main advantage of it over New Messages Only is that if you know
that there aren't any undownloaded old headers you can consider it as
a way of filling in headers which don't have bodies. The most likely
reason for these to occur is that you enter a newsgroup while online
(thus causing that automatic Get Next... that I mentioned in a previous
post) but they can also occur if you press Refresh or if your download
is interrupted after the headers are generated but before all their bodies
have been filled in. If you are using New Messages Only those
headers will stay as headers only unless you take some action on them
such as marking them Watched or Download Later. In either case your
synchronize command will temporarily convert your New Messages Only
method into (in Synchronize Newsgroup's terms) both a Get Messages
marked for download and Get...New Messages Only. With All Messages
such marking is unnecessary.

When you are first loading up your cache you won't want to use All Messages
(unless you really want to download all headers *and* their bodies) before
being able to use the newsgroup. A good compromise is to do a Headers Only
(so you know you have all possible headers). Then mark some of them
separately for Download Later and mark the rest Ignore Conversation.
That combination will allow you right away to change your synchronization method
to All Messages without the extreme overhead that having that set initially would
have caused. I would also mark the Ignore Conversation ones Read so I can
be aware of any new additions there might be to old threads. If that happens
all you need to do to try to get them is toggle off the Ignore Conversation
and they will be downloaded the next time you synchronize.
(I'm saying "try to get them" because as I previously mentioned to you
on some servers OE's use of old sequence numbers instead of the
full Message-ID may be problematic.)

If you don't get *all* headers e.g. instead of using a synchronize command
on an empty newsgroup you just allow an automatic Get Next... or even do
your own manual application of the Get Next... (e.g. via the Headers button),
you also won't want to use All Messages right away because of all the headers
which you haven't downloaded yet which you don't have any control over.
If you think you don't want to download them ever use the Catch-Up command.
Then you can switch to All Messages because then you would have all the
old headers you are ever going to get and the situation is then equivalent to the
previous case--you can mark threads of headers only with Ignore Conversation
in order to prevent All Messages from downloading too many old bodies
but still let it perform its useful function of filling in bodies for any stray headers
you may acquire and not have to worry about resorting to manual marking of them.

Whew! I have never tried to write out my whole story about downloading
and synchronization before. I'm not sure I have completely covered every
little nuance that I'm aware of but I think it is a more complete picture than
I have ever given elsewhere. Hope this helps.

Robert 

---
> I appreciate your help in sorting these out.
> Chad Harris
...