Re: Looking for DVD camcorder

Graham,
Thank you so much, thi si exactly the information I was seeking but could
not find it in an understandable format anywhere on the web.
You really have cleared up a few areas for me.
As long as I cature the video to dv-avi (the camcorder I ordered allows
this) I should get very good quality and full editing capabilities.

Thanks again

Monte Comeau


"Graham Hughes" <graham.hughes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:OKAYPMW2FHA.2364@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> There are a few principles to get around first.
> The video recorded to the minidv tape is dv, it is compressed at a ratio
> of around 5.1.
> If you capture as dv-avi - which is the dv signal wrapped in an avi
> wrapper, then it will be identical to the video on the tape.
> Every single frame in the dv-avi is an actual recording of what the cam
> saw, so for PAL, you have 25 real frames every second.
> As each of these frames is real, you can make an edit cut after frame 1 or
> frame 76895, or any inbetween,
> If you save as dv-avi to your hard drive the video will still retain the
> exact same quality.
> If you add transitions to the edit cut points, then quality will be very,
> very, very, very slightly lowered, but not at all noticeable even on
> profesional quality monitors.
> Mpeg is compressed to around 20.1. So you start with a much more
> compressed video.
> You can see this, by 1 hour of dv-avi consume 13gb of hdd. 1 hour of best
> quality Mpeg consumes about 4gb.
> Mpegs are made up of GOP's, group of frames. These frames are i, b, and p.
> An i frame is an exact recording of the camcorder, the frames between
> these i frames are made up, using the info on the i frame before it and
> the i frame after.
> GOP's can be from a few frames apart to many frames apart. This is one way
> of making the video fit more on a disc, so the less that fits on a disc,
> the smaller the GOP. A samll GOP may still be an i frame every 15 frames,
> so in fact you get less than two real frames every second (PAL).
> When you edit, you can only make cuts at i frames. So if the action
> changes mid GOP, you have to either cut to it before hand or cut to it
> after it has started.
> When you save this edited Mpeg, unless you have a programme which will
> allow you to save compatible files, you will then end up recompressing a
> compressed file.
> If you have ever saved a jpeg still a few times you will notice each time
> you save it it gets smaller in size, and gets lower quality. If you used a
> still tiff/bitmap file and made changes and saved it, it will not decrease
> in size and retains it's quality. This is the same for Mpeg and AVI.
> There is also this for mpeg editing.
>
> Mpeg2 files use programme time stamps to keep the audio and video in sync.
> Therefore when making your edits to the mpeg file when you preview in your
> editing programme or in the computer dvd player, before burning, the audio
> and video always appear to be in sync.
>
> The problem comes along when the Mpeg2 files are authored to the dvd and
> burning commences. In the authoring, the VOB files which are created,
> discard the programme time stamp information and this can lead to very
> small audio and video sync problems. The more edit points there are, the
> greater the problem will become. Straight cuts are generally not as bad as
> using transitions at edit points.
>
> On to Premiere elements.
> I've not used it, but I use Premeire 6.5. It is a crakcing programme, and
> by the reports I've read elements 2 is superb value for money.
> It is right in that you can import mpeg files without loss of quality. All
> you are doing is using the file from the dvd, or I found it best to copy
> the Mpeg to the hdd first, much faster seeking times. The loss of quality
> is in the recording of mpegs, when compared to avi.
> The main problem will come in your authoring app, when you come to make
> the vob files.
>
> I still believe if you want to edit, then use a minidv.
> If your editing is minimal, then you could get away with a dvd cam.
> If you don't want to do any editing and want to just play a dvd, then they
> are great camcorders, as the dvd made is pretty darn good quality.
>
> I hope I've been clear in this, let me know if you don't understand
> anything.
>
> --
> Graham Hughes
> MVP Digital Media
> www.myvideoproblems.co.uk
> www.dvds2treasure.com
> www.simplydv.com
>
>
> "Monte Comeau" <dag123@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:uBisvAN2FHA.924@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Thanks for the input Graham,
>> Have you any thoughts on Adobe's new Premiere Elements 2.0 program?
>> It claims that importing the files from DVD cams is seamless and no loss
>> of quality.
>> I am stillw aiting for delivery of my Sony DVD camcorder and if the loss
>> of quality compared to a miniDV camera I will send it back in exchange
>> for a Minidv model.
>>
>> "Graham Hughes" <graham.hughes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>> news:O1X%23A6L2FHA.2880@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> If you want to edit, choose a minidv camcorder.
>>> Lots of reasons, higher quality file type, which won't degrade when
>>> editing, easy to edit, at every frame, not so with mpeg files, every
>>> editing app works with them, etc etc.
>>> My review of the sony dvd cam is here, with my thoughts on editing at
>>> the end.
>>> http://www.myvideoproblems.com/ProductReviews/SonyDCRDVD92E.htm
>>>
>>> --
>>> Graham Hughes
>>> MVP Digital Media
>>> www.myvideoproblems.co.uk
>>> www.dvds2treasure.com
>>> www.simplydv.com
>>>
>>>
>>> "Monte" <mc@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>>> news:O6faot$1FHA.3000@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> I was wondering if anyone here could suggest a good digital camcorder.
>>>>
>>>> I want something with very good quality that records right to a DVD for
>>>> playback in computer for editing.
>>>>
>>>> I am cuurently looking at the Sony DCR-DVD403 and the Canon Alura
>>>>
>>>> Any comments on these two would be appreciated.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>


.

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