Re: Host of networking problems ...

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On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 17:20:28 -0800, Chrejo <Chrejo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

"Chuck" wrote:

On Wed, 8 Feb 2006 17:25:20 -0800, Chrejo <Chrejo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

<SNIP>

OK, that looks a bit better. Now, if file sharing is truly working, then NBT
broadcasts are probably getting from computer to computer. Which makes
malfunctioning firewalls less likely.

I wonder if having the 2 network connectors on user-a15a222baf is a problem.
I
know that it would confuse me. What physical wires run between the two
computers? When you ping 192.168.2.20 from user-a15a222baf, does the ping go
out (and come back) thru the right network connector? Likewise, when you ping
192.168.2.15, is that going thru the wire connected to the nVidia?

And I know that you say you have disabled firewalls on both computers, but
what
firewalls did you disable? Please be specific here. Note two details that I
repeat, over and over, in my articles:
# Watch out for AntiVirus / AntiWorm products that contain firewall
components!
# NOTE: The nVidia nForce is a hardware firewall on the NIC or motherboard!
<http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/05/your-personal-firewall-can-either-help.html>
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/05/your-personal-firewall-can-either-help.html

Ok, I HAD two firewalls not including windows firewall, One was Trend
Micro's PC-cillin Internet Security 2005 (The one I use now), and the NVIDIA
nForce 4 onboard firewall (uninstalled). You mentioned that perhaps the
onboard nvidia firewall might not truely be uninstalled in your article and I
had a sneaky suspition about that but assumed it was and still do but it was
installed and might be the problem because I simply uninstalled it from
add/remove programs I believe. I'll also mention the store I bought my
machine from said that the nvidia firewall caused problems they found but
this was after I had already installed it (sigh). You also mentioned in your
article that you shouldn't uninstall the windows firewall "service". I'm not
sure if I did or not, I did just disable it from the methods you mentioned
but I did also tell windows not to monitor the status of the firewall (in the
same options screen with Security Center) so I wouldn't keep getting the
reminder that the firewall wasn't on. Basically I would disable it to try
and play multiplayer games over the internet and the firewall may have caused
problems so I had to disable it time to time. I don't know alot about
opening specific ports and whatnot so I tend to leave it alone and just
disable it temporarily. Because my antivirus software is oem and was setup
and installed prior to me recieveing it I don't know alot about it nor do I
have a manual for it. I never bothered to look it up online, but will if it
comes down to it being the problem. I hope your right about it not likely
being firewall problems.

The nVidia nForce is a new product. I will be open minded, but remain
skeptical. If it's a hardware device, is it really possible to "turn it off"?
Since the firewall processor is literally somewhere in the path between the CPU
/ OS and the Ethernet port, how do you turn that off? Flip a switch that
bypasses the firewall processor? How do you know that a bypass switch works?

Now, having 2 firewalls is OK, IFF one of them is hardware based, as in the
nVidia nForce. Having 2 software based firewalls is NOT OK. Software firewalls
install themselves into the network stack, generally into the LSP / Winsock. To
do this, they have to change pointers. For instance, if the current chain is:
Program A <==> Program B <==> Ethernet port
a firewall inserts itself so
Program A <==> Firewall <==> Program B <==> Ethernet port
Two software firewalls doing this, unless properly written, can muck up the
chain in various ways, preventing traffic, or maybe bypassing different
programs. This becomes what we call, LSP / Winsock corruption.

Now Windows Firewall being built into Windows, it cannot be un installed, but
must be disabled, if it's not to be used. Third party firewalls, that install
into LSP / Winsock, are known here for not reacting properly to being disabled.
If you have ANY third party firewalls, the experienced helpers here will advise
you to do one of two things:
# Enable and configure properly.
# Enable then un install. And follow all instructions of the vendor.
We do NOT advise:
# Disable.
# Disable then un install.
And PLEASE do not EVER try to run more than one third party firewall.
For more detailed discussion on this:
<http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/05/your-personal-firewall-can-either-help.html>
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/05/your-personal-firewall-can-either-help.html


I'm going to quote you here to break down the questions and answer them
accordindly :-).
You said "I wonder if having the 2 network connectors on user-a15a222baf is
a problem. I know that it would confuse me." - I hope this isn't the case
because the whole point of this is to network my two computers without a
router :-(. "What physical wires run between the two computers?". - Ok,
it's a home made crossover (rj45) fast ethernet cable (100 mbps), but because
the file sharing works that couldn't be the problem right, or could it?
"When you ping 192.168.2.20 from user-a15a222baf, does the ping go out (and
come back) thru the right network connector?". - LOL, I have NO idea. All I
know is that pc 2 is connected via the realtek card and that adapter 3
(according to windows) or the nvidia adapter (physically). I know it says it
times out ... but I know what your saying and I was thinking the same thing
... maybe the two adapters arn't communicating properly but I have no idea
that's way beyond me lol. PC 2 has one nic so it's simple on that end.
"Likewise, when you ping 192.168.2.15, is that going thru the wire connected
to the nVidia?". - Again I don't even know how to test for that besides
pinging. It times out as you know and that's all I really know ... I don't
have equipment to test for it but I do have a store bought crossover I will
try tonight.

Homemade crossover? As in made by hand? Please NO. Try the store one.
<http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/04/making-your-own-ethernet-cables-is-not.html>
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/04/making-your-own-ethernet-cables-is-not.html

To know how network traffic is going and coming, you need to examine the static
route table.
<http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/11/static-route-table.html>
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/11/static-route-table.html


Is there a way to test for the communication between two adapters on a
computer? Can I really know what adapter is sending the ping out and what
one pc 2 is trying to send it two? I assumed it was like it is physically,
pc 2 sends to adapter 2 (nvidia onboard) and nvidia onboard to adapter 1
(marvell onboard) to the modem. That's what i was all confused about earlier
and didn't know if they were speaking to eachother or setup right. there
might be something i was missing. That reminds me, how do I even know if ICS
is enabled on the machine ... I see that connection 2 is shared (marvell
adapter) but thats it.

ICS is NOT enabled. Both the Marvell and the nVidia on user-a15a222baf are on
192.168.2/24. That's what is confusing me - we keep talking about ICS, but I
don't see which is the ICS input (WAN), and which is the ICS output (LAN)?

I think we should get the local network working first though right, then
worry about ICS right? I'm still lost for what to do really ... maybe you
can share some diagnostic tools or ways to furture see what is really
happening. What should I try first, to narrow down the possibilities, I'm
very patient because I know I need it and have no choice lol!

Last things first. If you are going to use ICS, that will change the network.
So getting file sharing working, then running ICS, may or may not work. Both
the ICS server and client will change.

The thing about ICS - it provides, and requires use of, a DHCP server. When you
enable ICS, the ICS clients have to use the DHCP settings that it provides.
This changes file sharing, in that it changes TCP/IP.

So you really have to get ICS working first, if you're going to use it at all.

So looking backwards where you are, you have 2 computers, and you can do file
sharing between both, right? So now you are left with 2 problems:
# Internet service.
# Pinging (IP connectivity).

Am I right so far? Let's take this one step at a time.

Hey Chuck, it's been a little bit since I wrote but I was too overwhelmed by
problems and had to take a break. Ok, ultimately I want to have the ip
connectivity between computers but don't neccessarily need ICS running for
that right? I want my two computers to be able to communicate with each
other via TCP/IP properly but comp 2 doesn't need to access the net. It
would be nice but I'll sacrifice it if I need two. What's easier I guess?
In all acuallity I want 3 computers networked and a router but this is later.
Right now I just want my two computers to be able to communicate propperly
or to even get through to each other besides file sharing. In other words
and most importantly lol to be able to play games via IP/Lan. I'll try later
tonight using only the one adapter and disable the other ... this might
eliminate the possibility of the two onboard adapters not comunicating
between each other properly.

What do you suggest I do for my setup? Would a good router make all the
difference? If so I'll get one sooner than later :-).

If you are ever planning to get a router, now would be the time. Getting ICS
working, then trashing ICS and putting in a router, is 3 times the work. Start
with a router.

And see my notes above. Please.

--
Cheers,
Chuck, MS-MVP [Windows - Networking]
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/
Paranoia is not a problem, when it's a normal response from experience.
My email is AT DOT
actual address pchuck mvps org.
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Host of networking problems ...
    ... And I know that you say you have disabled firewalls on both computers, ... The nVidia nForce is a hardware firewall on the NIC or motherboard! ... come back) thru the right network connector?". ...
    (microsoft.public.windowsxp.network_web)
  • Re: Host of networking problems ...
    ... And I know that you say you have disabled firewalls on both computers, ... The nVidia nForce is a hardware firewall on the NIC or motherboard! ... how do I even know if ICS ...
    (microsoft.public.windowsxp.network_web)
  • Re: CPU Internet Share
    ... ICS sucks. ... NAT'd Simplistic or explicit FireWall, 4 10/100 Ethernet switch, ... No software needs to be setup on any PC and it makes the DSL connection completely OS ... |> But, about your question, what you need to do is network these computers. ...
    (microsoft.public.win2000.general)
  • Re: LAN + firewall problem
    ... i can't use a firewall with this lan. ... If the hub has an uplink ... I'd hook the computers to the hub, and the adsl to the hub. ... I've NEVER gotten ICS to work ...
    (comp.security.firewalls)
  • Re: What runs when?
    ... In addition, since you are not behind a hardware firewall, you need to have *ALL* computers protected with AV and firewall. ... ICS does not allow NAT, so all computers no protected individually are at risk. ... I should have added that both other comps have antivirus and firewall.They belong to kidswho will one day leave home so I am not interestd in the router. ...
    (microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics)