Re: Column: Answering Some Common Windows XP Home Networking Quest



"Chuck" wrote:

On Thu, 9 Feb 2006 15:08:27 -0800, "Symondsr"
<Symondsr@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:



"Chuck" wrote:

On Thu, 9 Feb 2006 04:47:28 -0800, "Symondsr"
<Symondsr@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:



"Chuck" wrote:

On Wed, 8 Feb 2006 18:15:03 -0800, "Symondsr"
<Symondsr@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:



"Chuck" wrote:

On Wed, 8 Feb 2006 14:21:34 -0800, "Symondsr"
<Symondsr@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:



"Chuck" wrote:

On Wed, 8 Feb 2006 05:14:39 -0800, "Symondsr"
<Symondsr@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

"Chuck" wrote:

On Tue, 7 Feb 2006 16:31:28 -0800, "Symondsr"
<Symondsr@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:



"Chuck" wrote:

On Tue, 7 Feb 2006 14:59:16 -0800, "Symondsr"
<Symondsr@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:



"Chuck" wrote:

On Tue, 7 Feb 2006 13:20:28 -0800, "Symondsr"
<Symondsr@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Regarding two routers and networking, can you help me with the following. I
have a wireless router connected to a cable modem. There is a wireless
network with 1 or 2 PCs connected to this. The home or main computer is
running XP Home. I have a 3rd PC running XP connected into a 2nd network
with a wired router, and the Main computer is also on this network. The main
computer has both a wireless card and a wired card. How can I get the 3rd PC
on the wired router to have access to the Internet via the cable modem. I
have tried bridging the two but the main computer gets locked out of the
wireless network when I do. I have tried turning DHCP off on the wired
router; I have reassigned the wired router so that all the IP addresses have
the same first 3 numbers. But I have not been able to get this to work. The
wireless network has WEP protection - I will try turning that off next. The
wireless router does not appear to be able to be configured as an access
point (I am not sure what that is anyway) and the wired router does not
appear to have the ability (Linksys NR041) to be reconfigured. Their
customer support told me I would need to hardwire the wired router to the
wireless router and that the XP computer would not be able to bridge these
two networks. Can I make this work with the hardware I currently have?

If you want to make the main computer provide Internet service to the 3rd
computer, and you cannot connect the third computer (and the wired router)
directly to the WiFi router and the cable modem, might I suggest that you run
ICS on the main computer. Note that I do not recommend this as a general
choice. Read this article:
<http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/05/ics-is-ok-but-you-can-do-better.html>
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/05/ics-is-ok-but-you-can-do-better.html

Note that getting ICS working is subject to how you configure both the WiFi
router, and the wireless router. You would be way better off using the WiFi
router to share service to all computers. Why do you need a second router,
anyway? More details about your network might be a good idea.
<http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/06/background-information-useful-in.html>
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/06/background-information-useful-in.html

You asked some questions about my setup and I have some questions on your
response. My cable modem and wireless router are in a different location
from my main computer - will ICS work with this setup? I had given up on
that idea 2 days ago thinking my main computer needed to be directly
connected. (Note that I have not read or fully understood all the references
you supplied.) I thought I needed the second router to allow the main
computer to talk to the computer without the wireless card and I do not have
a crossover cable - I thought a special cable was needed.

OK, let's start from the beginning. Please describe where each of the following
components are located, in relation to the other, and what network devices each
computer uses:
# Cable modem / WiFi router.
# Main computer.
# Wired router.
# Computer 3.

I think if we can get the locational issues out of the way, we can clarify the
wiring issues. Maybe we can simplify your setup a bit, and get it to work as it
should. Read the previously cited articles, and take your time to fully
understand. And here's another one - if you truly need to use two routers,
maybe for locational or wiring reasons, here is an article that describes how to
set them up appropriately.
<http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/06/file-sharing-on-lan-with-two-routers.html>
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/06/file-sharing-on-lan-with-two-routers.html

I'll try again. Distant room has cable modem and wireless router. Computer
room has big PC with wireless card and wired card. Big PC is on wireless
network with wireless router. Little PC is also in computer room. Little PC
has only a wired card. A wired router does exist and is now being used in
the computer room to create a network that allows Big PC and little PC to
talk to each other. Without adding hardware, how do I get internet service
for little PC. Wired router is Linksys NR041. Both PCs have XP home. The
article you referenced seemed to require routers to be connected to each
other.

OK, you are going to make a Wifi to Ethernet bridge out of the main computer.

Given the hardware that you have right now, you have 2 choices for the main
computer:
# Set it up with a bridge between the wireless and wired network cards. You say
that you've tried this - try this again, and produce "ipconfig /all" for all 3
computers.
# Set it up as an ICS server. In this case, the wired LAN will be 192.168.0/24
- you have no choice. So you will have to setup the WiFi LAN to be other than
192.168.0/24.

The third choice is to buy a WiFi card for Little Computer. A WiFi card costs
about 1 - 2 months broadband service, and it is hella better solution
technically and operationally. Using either of choices 1 or 2 will require the
main computer to be on, and online, whenever you wish to use Little Computer.

It's your dime, and your network. But my advice will always be to buy a WiFi
card, and connect Little Computer directly to the WiFi router.

Thank you, Chuck. I understand perfectly well about the wifi card for the
little PC. I'll be doing that sometime in the future.

When you say with a bridge, I assume you mean the WINDOWS XP Bridge network.
When you say produce "ipconfig/all", is this a command in the setup or just
a DOS type command whose results you want me to post for further analysis.
What does the nomenclature 192.168.0/24 mean. I can set the first three
numbers into router for DCHP assignment and for the router itself - I am not
sure what the 0/24 portion means

OK, I'm glad that you intend to get a WiFi card for the Little Computer sometime
in the future. Let's see what the challenges are with using a workaround first.

A bridge, generically, is a 2 node switch connecting 2 networks with different
physical structure. In your case, you will be bridging WiFi ("input" to Main
computer) to Ethernet ("output" from Main computer, "input" to Little Computer).

An ipconfig log is one of the most basic diagnostic tools in Windows Networking.
Please read this article, and linked articles, and follow instructions
precisely:
<http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/05/troubleshooting-network-neighborhood.html#AskingForHelp>
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/05/troubleshooting-network-neighborhood.html#AskingForHelp

If we can't get a bridge working, and you end up using ICS, which is a software
based NAT router, your Little Computer will end up on a subnet by itself. The
Ethernet card on Main Computer will have an IP address of 192.168.0.1 (with
subnet mask of 255.255.255.0, which is the same as saying subnet 192.168.0/24),
and this cannot be changed. Neither the WiFi LAN, nor the Ethernet LAN (if you
use the wired router as a router), will be able to use 192.168.0/24 - you will
have to reconfigure both to allow for ICS on Main.
<http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/05/ics-is-ok-but-you-can-do-better.html>
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/05/ics-is-ok-but-you-can-do-better.html

Another downside of ICS is that you will end up with a segmented LAN. If you
are planning on running Windows Networking (file / printer sharing), that will
be possible only with a lot of additional work. Network Neighborhood, in
particular, won't work properly.

Anyway, let's start with a bridge on Main, and see what "ipconfig /all" looks
like for all 3 computers. That might give us a clue what your problem is. A
bridge will be hella simpler than ICS, since you already have NAT on the WiFi
router.

Here are the ipconfig/all for before and after cases. Note that there are
two PCs connected at the moment. DELL is on both networks and where the
bridge is created.

<SNIP>

and that is when I lose the internet connection.

More and more interesting. I would really like to see the ipconfig from the
third computer, so I can verify what the WiFi LAN looks like.

Right now, I will guess:
# The WiFi LAN is on subnet 192.168.2/24.
# You are connecting Dell and Ibmchar by Ethernet, thru the LAN ports of the
wired router, on subnet 192.168.1/24.
# When enabled, the bridge on Dell picks up DHCP from the wired router, again
192.168.1/24. There's no route to the WiFi router, and you lose connectivity,
and Internet service.

Try disabling the DHCP server on the wired router, and enabling the bridge.
Let's see if the bridge then picks up DHCP from the WiFi LAN.

new ipconfig/all



Windows IP Configuration



Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : DELL

Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . :

Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Hybrid

IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No



Ethernet adapter Network Bridge (Network Bridge) 6:



Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :

Description . . . . . . . . . . . : MAC Bridge Miniport

Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 02-0E-2E-6D-74-C1

Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes

Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes

Autoconfiguration IP Address. . . : 169.254.163.130

Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.0.0

Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :

Note that internet connection to wireless was lost, and I was unable to port
over the ipconfig from the little PC. PC#3 shows up on the weekends and
usually connects w/o problem to the wireless network.

Well, there's the problem then. With the bridge enabled, Dell doesn't bother to
try and get DHCP thru the WiFi adapter, it just goes to the wired adapter. Can
you assign a static ip setting to the bridge?
IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.2.200
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.2.1
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.2.1

--
Cheers,
Chuck, MS-MVP [Windows - Networking]
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/
Paranoia is not a problem, when it's a normal response from experience.
My email is AT DOT
actual address pchuck mvps org.

I created the bridge and fixed addresses as you directed. The DHCP for the
wired router is turned off as you suggested before. All network connections
now say they are made when I look at network connections, but there is no
file sharing between the two and the internet connection is gone.

Right then. Let's give it a rest on the bridge solution, and explore the other
possibilities.

Possibility 1 - make Dell an ICS server.
# Disable the bridge on Dell, verify that it's WiFi connection gets DHCP, and
that it has Internet service.
# Leave DHCP off on the wired router.
# Leave Dell and Ibmchar connected to the LAN on the wired router.
# Leave IBMChar as is - it should get DHCP from Dell.

Run the Network Setup Wizard on Dell, and select:
This computer connects directly to the Internet. The other computers on my
network connect to the Internet through this computer.
NOTE The second sentence is the key here - it turns ICS on.
<http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/05/using-network-setup-wizard-in-windows.html>
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/05/using-network-setup-wizard-in-windows.html

Possibility 2 - buy a Wifi card for IBMChar, and connect it to the WiFi LAN.
# Shop around, and you can get a PCI wireless adapter (a Hawking Wireless-G) for
as little as $20.
<http://shop1.outpost.com/search?search_type=adv&resultpage=0&sqxts=1&order_by=s00d&pType=&cat=0&query_string=wireless+pci&minprice=&maxprice=&x=0&y=0>
http://shop1.outpost.com/search?search_type=adv&resultpage=0&sqxts=1&order_by=s00d&pType=&cat=0&query_string=wireless+pci&minprice=&maxprice=&x=0&y=0

--
Cheers,
Chuck, MS-MVP [Windows - Networking]
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/
Paranoia is not a problem, when it's a normal response from experience.
My email is AT DOT
actual address pchuck mvps org.


Well, I'm not surprised. [SOMETHING MUST BE OBVIOUS TO YOU BUT NOT TO ME]
Ethernet adapter HOME:
Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : GVC-REALTEK Ethernet 10/100 PCI
Adapter
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-C0-A8-88-9B-4C
Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0

Did you tell the NSW to share the connection thru the GVC-REALTEK? (NOT SURE
HOW TO DO THIS OR IF NSW ASKED) Did you
select
This computer connects directly to the Internet. The other computers on my
network connect to the Internet through this computer. [YES]

Is the Windows Firewall / ICS service running?[ PROBABLY - LITTLE TIME TO
CHECK RIGHT NOW]
<http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/06/services-running-on-your-computer.html>
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/06/services-running-on-your-computer.html

You have a cable coming from the GVC-REALTEK plugged in to the wired router,
and
into which port?PORT 2 And which port is the cable from IBMChar plugged
into? PORT 1 Is
DHCP on the wired router shut off? YES What IP address is the wired router
LAN set
to? CANNOT CHECK AT THIS POINT- THOUGHT IT WAS 192.168.2.0 or .2
.

Relevant Pages

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  • Re: Column: Answering Some Common Windows XP Home Networking Quest
    ... I have a 3rd PC running XP connected into a 2nd network ... with a wired router, and the Main computer is also on this network. ... on the wired router to have access to the Internet via the cable modem. ... Note that getting ICS working is subject to how you configure both the WiFi ...
    (microsoft.public.windowsxp.network_web)
  • Re: Column: Answering Some Common Windows XP Home Networking Quest
    ... have a wireless router connected to a cable modem. ... I have a 3rd PC running XP connected into a 2nd network ... with a wired router, and the Main computer is also on this network. ... on the wired router to have access to the Internet via the cable modem. ...
    (microsoft.public.windowsxp.network_web)
  • Re: Column: Answering Some Common Windows XP Home Networking Quest
    ... I have a 3rd PC running XP connected into a 2nd network ... with a wired router, and the Main computer is also on this network. ... on the wired router to have access to the Internet via the cable modem. ... Note that getting ICS working is subject to how you configure both the WiFi ...
    (microsoft.public.windowsxp.network_web)
  • Re: Column: Answering Some Common Windows XP Home Networking Quest
    ... I have a 3rd PC running XP connected into a 2nd network ... with a wired router, and the Main computer is also on this network. ... on the wired router to have access to the Internet via the cable modem. ... Note that getting ICS working is subject to how you configure both the WiFi ...
    (microsoft.public.windowsxp.network_web)
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