Re: Win XP losing Network Places

Chuck,

A most excellent response.

Thank you.

andy

"Chuck" wrote:

> On Fri, 8 Apr 2005 06:49:04 -0700, "Andy" <Andy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
>
> >Thanks for your response. I will implement your suggestions today.
> >
> >What do you think is the logic as to why the browser works sometimes and not
> >other times and why some machines have no problems?
> >
> >Andy
>
> Andy,
>
> Here's my currently (unpublished) explanation. Apologies if it's a bit long.
>
> In any large office (enterprise) environment, you have dozens, if not hundreds
> of computers. You don't have to constantly turn the browser service on or off
> there. How does that work, and why doesn't a Small Office / Home Office (SOHO)
> workgroup environment work the same way?
>
> In a computer network, there are clients, and there are servers. A client is any
> computer accessing shared data on another computer, and a server is any computer
> providing shared data to another computer. A domain, or workgroup, is a
> collection of clients and servers which have a common purpose.
>
> The computers operating as clients, and as servers, all run a Windows operating
> system, and all connect to a network. That summarises the similarities between
> a SOHO workgroup and an enterprise domain. There are an almost infinite number
> of differences between them.
>
> How do the clients know which servers are out there, providing shared data for
> them? When you look in Network Neighborhood, and see a list of shares (or
> don't), where does the list come from (or why are some shares not there)? The
> list is provided by the browser subsystem, and any omissions from the list are
> the fault of the browsers.
>
> You can't have every server on the network constantly advertising its presence
> to every client - that would create chaos. The browser subsystem tames the
> chaos. The servers are listed by the browser servers, and the browser servers
> ("browsers") provide the server list to the clients.
>
> Just as having every server advertise to every client is bad, so would be having
> every server advertise to one server, and that one server distribute the server
> list to all of the clients. The official recommendation from Microsoft calls
> for 1 browser for every 32 computers in the domain (workgroup). If you have
> more than 32 computers, you have backup browsers. The backup browsers have
> their activity coordinated by a master browser.
>
> If you have more than one computer, you should have a browser. If you have more
> than two computers, you should have a backup browser, and a master browser.
> With just two computers, the backup and master browser might be the same
> computer.
>
> Each backup browser periodically sends its server list to the master browser,
> which combines all the lists into one master list, and distributes back to each
> backup browser. The backup browsers distribute the list to the clients, which
> then have something to display in Network Neighborhood.
>
> In an enterprise domain, the domain controller (master authentication server)
> generally acts as the master browser. The domain controller is always online,
> and always accessible. There are major problems in a domain environment, if the
> domain controller isn't available.
>
> The domain controller functionality, and the browser functionality, both include
> failover mechanisms, so there will always be a domain controller, and a master
> browser, available if the server providing that functionality becomes
> unavailable for any reason.
>
> There are many differences between an enterprise domain environment, and a SOHO
> workgroup environment.
>
> In an enterprise domain network, for instance:
> 1) The role of any computer, as a client or server, is very formal.
> 2) Servers are traditionally fixed in location, and stay connected.
> 3) Servers generally run a server operating system.
> 4) Clients typically only need to know (see) the presence of servers.
> 5) Clients typically don't become browsers, because there are usually at least
> 2 servers present on the domain, acting as browsers.
>
> The master browser role, and the browser role, are generally chosen for a
> computer running as the domain controller, and for a computer running a server
> operating system.
>
> Contrast all that with your typical SOHO workgroup, where you have 2 or more
> computers, all sharing data with each other in a web of shares.
> 1) The role of any computer, as a client or a server, is casual.
> 2) Some computers, wirelessly or otherwise connected, may move around.
> 3) Many computers are casually disconnected from the network, or turned off, at
> the whim of the owner.
> 4) Most computers run a client operating system, though acting as servers.
> 5) All computers need to know (see) the presence of other computers in Network
> Neighborhood.
> 6) All computers become browsers, unless otherwise configured.
> 7) Many servers have software or settings changes made at the whim of the
> owner, which may hamper performace as a client or as a server.
>
> The master browser will be one of the workgroup computers, and be subject to the
> treatment of a workgroup computer.
>
> Regardless of all of the above considerations, there is expected to always be a
> master browser in any workgroup (domain). Always being a relative term, subject
> to the browsers checking for a master browser periodically, not every second.
>
> Short of there being a domain controller in your workgroup (there won't be), or
> a computer running a server operating system (there may not be), the server
> chosen to be the master browser will probably be the server that's been up the
> longest (not necessarily online the longest).
>
> Anytime that a backup browser realises that there is no master browser present
> on the domain, the browser is authorised to hold an election to determine a new
> master browser.
>
> What happens if any server loses contact with another? If a browser server
> loses contact with the master browser, it may elect itself a master browser.
> This gives you a workgroup (domain) with 2 master browsers, neither able to see
> the other. This is where many browser problems start.
>
> Differences between operating system, and configurations, of the various
> servers, combined with changing the identity of the master browser, will make
> for an ever changing workgroup, as seen in Network Neighborhood. And complaints
> that "I can't always see all the computers in my workgroup" ("always" and "all"
> are key words here) become natural.
>
> What happens if the master browser is rebooted? While it's being rebooted, a
> master browser election may be held, and when the server that was the master
> browser comes back up and online, it may find that it's no longer the master
> browser. Or it may not. The more servers online at any time, the more backup
> browsers to notice the absence of the master browser when it's rebooted.
>
> Timing is a major issue here. In any domain (workgroup), as I said, there has
> to always be a master browser visible to any backup browser. Any time any
> backup browser can't contact the master browser, it assumes that there's a
> problem with the master browser, and elects a new master browser. The greater
> number of backup browsers that there are on the network, the greater the chance
> that one backup browser will realise the absence of the master browser, and
> start an election.
>
> What if you, on your home workgroup, casually unplug the network cable on the
> master browser? Depending upon how long you leave it unplugged, the master
> browser may be replaced. If you simply plug the cable back in, you will have a
> workgroup with two master browsers. Some servers may still recognise the old
> master browser, others the new one.
>
> What if you carry your laptop away from the router, and it loses network
> connectivity? If it's a backup browser, and it realises that contact with the
> master browser has been lost, it may elect itself master browser. When it
> reconnects to the network, the above situation may apply.
>
> There are also challenges when you have computers running Windows 9x (95, 98, or
> ME) on the same network with computers running NT (NT, 2000, XP, Server 2003).
> The rules for detecting the absence of the master browser ("Browse Master" in
> Windows 9x) vary between the 2 platforms. This leads to the problems when a
> working LAN of Windows 9x computers has a Windows XP computer added.
> <http://www.microsoft.com/technet/archive/win95/w95brows.mspx>
> <http://support.microsoft.com/?id=246489>
>
> System configurations, and personal firewalls, may affect the ability of a
> server to be seen by a browser, or to act as a master browser. The
> restrictanonymous registry setting may prevent any server from being seen by a
> browser. Any personal firewall, depending upon configuration, may prevent a
> server from being seen as a master browser, or may prevent a master browser from
> communicating with the backup browsers.
>
> The bottom line is, in a SOHO workgroup environment, if you can't control the
> above factors (and the chaotic environment makes that unlikely), the best thing
> to do is to restrict the number of browsers on the network. By doing that, you
> lessen the possibility of master browser changes and conflicts. So the advice
> given is generally to use one (or two, with the second being the backup)
> browsers, and turn the service off on all others.
>
> The Microsoft Browstat program will show us what browsers (I'm not talking about
> Internet Explorer here) you have in your domain / workgroup, at any time.
> http://support.microsoft.com/?id=188305
>
> You can download Browstat from either:
> <http://www.dynawell.com/reskit/microsoft/win2000/browstat.zip>
> <http://rescomp.stanford.edu/staff/manual/rcc/tools/browstat.zip>
>
> Browstat is very small (40K), and needs no install. Just unzip the downloaded
> file, copy browstat.exe to any folder in the Path, and run it from a command
> window, by "browstat status". Make sure all computers list the same master
> browser.
> For more information about the browser subsystem (very intricate), see:
> http://support.microsoft.com/?id=188001
> http://support.microsoft.com/?id=188305
> http://support.microsoft.com/?id=231312
> <http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winntas/deploy/prodspecs/ntbrowse.mspx>
> <http://www.microsoft.com/technet/archive/win95/w95brows.mspx>
>
> Summary rules for dealing with the browser:
>
> 1) Diagnose the problem before making changes to the browser infrastructure.
> As I said, the complaint "I can't always see all of the computers from every
> computer" is a good symptom of a browser conflict. Lack of "always" or "all" in
> the complaint may indicate a different cause. Don't go changing the browser
> setup without having some chance of producing results.
>
> 2) Browstat, which only works on Windows NT systems, is a good diagnostic tool,
> when only Windows NT / 2000 / 2003 / XP systems are involved.
>
> 3) It is best to run the browser service on any wired server on the LAN, and
> let the browser subsystem elect a master browser as necessary.
>
> 4) If you have a small LAN with no computers running a server OS, all servers
> are potential master browsers. If you take any server offline, and it is
> powered up, you need to power it off before reconnecting it (or at least restart
> it while reconnecting it). Or be prepared to diagnose browser conflicts.
>
> 5) If you have a small LAN with no computers running a server OS, and any of
> the servers are wirelessly connected, disable the browser service on all
> wirelessly connected servers. Or be prepared to diagnose browser conflicts.
>
> --
> Cheers,
> Chuck
> Paranoia comes from experience - and is not necessarily a bad thing.
> My email is AT DOT
> actual address pchuck sonic net.
>
.

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