Re: Problem getting a new XP computer to join an NT 4.0/Win 98 domain

From: Pegasus \(MVP\) (I.can_at_fly.com)
Date: 11/02/04 

Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 15:46:29 +1100

See below.

"Stephen Porter" <stp@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1bf08406c022f09c989686@msnews.microsoft.com...
> Hi,
>
> I'm sorry I haven't been able to respond to your comments and
> suggestions until now. I've been doing several other things,
> but this is still a problem.
>
> I understand all your points. I did a bit more poking around
> and all of the computers on this network do log onto a domain,
> in this case named "Domain" (just to make things confusing!).
>
> I'm going to insert another write-up of the situation here in
> the hopes that you might be able to point me further in the
> right direction. As you will read, the problem seems to be
> that the XP box will NOT recognize the NT 4.0 machine as a valid
> domain controller. Why this should affect the XP box's ability
> to "see" the server, I'm not sure. I'm hoping that you will
> see this be able to respond again.
>
> TIA.
>
> __________________________________________
> More details on the XP/Win 98/NT 4.0 network problem:
>
> Situation: the place where I work has a very simple network
> setup that has been functioning without problems for several
> years--before I came on board and ended up with the
> responsibility for handling the occasional glitch and other
> computer-related things. There are about 9 computers on the
> network. The file server runs NT 4.0 and 7 of the workstations
> are running Win 98 SE. One workstation runs Win 2K
> Professional. All of the computers are set up to logon onto a
> domain--although they really don't have to be set up this way in
> this simple scenario, at least I don't know of any reason they
> should. The domain name is "Domain".
>
> The owner of the company wants to gradually upgrade all the
> computers on the network and as a first step I ordered two Dell
> boxes with XP Professional on them. I'm trying to get the
> first one set up as a workstation on the network and am not able
> to either log on to the domain, nor am I able to see the file
> server at all.
>
> Further details: there are 3 workgroups defined on the network.
> Again, I inherited all this setup and would like to
> simplify/streamline and improve everything, but I want to do it
> gradually and hopefully not break anything in the process.
>
> Workgroup 1: "Domain" -- 1 member, which is the file server
> itself.
> Workgroup 2: "Workgroup" -- 5 members
> Workgroup 3: "Office" -- 4 members
>
> ALL of the OLD workstations see all 3 of these workgroups and
> can access any shares enabled on the file server and/or any
> workstation with shares defined.

There is a widespread misconception that "workgroups" and
"domains" control the degree of access that users have to networked
resources. Not so. Domains are a convenient way of managing
accounts centrally. Workgroups are a convenient way of showing
network resources in "Explorer". They do NOT restrict a user's
access to a given resource!

While your WinXP PCs are unable to access shares defined on the
other PCs, get back to basics and start working from a Command
Prompt on a WinXP PC. Look at these things:
- Run ipconfig.exe /all. Are the IP address details compatible
   with your WinNT machine? Can you ping the server?
- Accounts. Does your local WinXP account/password have
   an identical account defined on your WinNT machine?
- Firewall: Is your WinXP firewall turned off? Is the firewall
   that is bundled with your virus scanner turned off?
- Share. What do you get when you type this command:
   net use x: \\YourServer\YourShare

> The NEW XP workstation sees only the two non-server workgroups:
> "Workgroup" and "Office". The XP box itself is currently a
> member of the "Workgroup" workgroup, but I've tried changing it
> to "Office" and "Domain" with no joy.

What does "see" in "The NEW XP workstation sees only . . ." mean?
Are you working out of Explorer? Use a Command Prompt - it is
much more direct, it makes fewer assumptions and generates has far
more informative error messages. GUIS are for users; administrators
must get used to working from the command line!

> I was/am working on theory that in order to see the file server
> the XP box needs to log onto the domain, "Domain," and have
> tried to get it to do so by changing the Network ID dialog with
> the radio button for setting it up to log on to a domain
> controller. Whenever I set it up this way, I get an error
> message saying that "no domain controller can be found" and
> that's that--it just reverts back to the workgroup setting,

This usually happens when a firewall blocks traffic.

> and
> I can see all the computer in the two other workgroups, but not
> the file server, which is in the workgroup "Domain." (I hope
> this isn't too confusing ;-).

When I want to "see" another machine then I do this:
- Log on as administrator.
- Start a Command Prompt.
- Issue this command: dir \\OtherPC\SomeShare
I never use Explorer for trouble-shooting, because it was
never intended as a trouble-shooting tool.

> Once I feel I can work with this
> without breaking anything I intend to remove these
> ambiguous/confusing names.)
>
> The people who originally set up and have worked on this network
> in the past are all scattered to the winds, but I did call
> someone a colleague recommended as a possible consultant. He
> seemed to be well-credentialed and sounded as though he knew
> what he was talking about, although he thought that our network
> and company are too small for him to take on as a client, and,
> frankly, he's quite expensive and only works on monthly
> contracts. But he was congenial and in a nutshell he told me
> that XP boxes will not recognize NT 4.0 boxes--at least as
> domain controllers.

I doubt that this is correct but then I don't have any NT domains
left, and setting one up just to give you an authoritative answer to
your question seems a little over the top. You might try one of
these newsgroups to settle this issue:
- comp.os.ms.windows.nt.admin.networking
- comp.os.ms.windows.nt.admin.misc

> According to him our only two choices in
> this situation would be to revert the new XP boxes to Win 2K Pro
> OR to upgrade the server to Server 2002/3 OR to possibly just
> use another Win XP box as the server and make it a REALLY
> simple, peer-to-peer network. I thanked him and started
> thinking about this problem and recalled that I do have
> experience with another company where the file server is running
> NT 4.0 and it has SEVERAL XP boxes that have no trouble at all
> seeing the file server and any shares on it. In this case,
> however, there is NO domain to be logged onto.
>
> So I'm not entirely trusting what the $175/hour consultant is
> saying--is the "incompatibility" (which he claims MS built into
> XP in order to get people to upgrade from NT servers) is domain-
> related? Or is it just not true and there is some other
> solution.
>
> If he is right and the problem is related to the fact that I
> can't seem to get the XP box to recognize the domain, "Domain,"
> then is there some way to safely revert the file server from
> being a domain controller and just change all the workstations
> to simple peer-to-peer mode??
>
> Target # 1 here is to just get these XP boxes running as
> workstations with as little fuss as possible. Then we will
> address the issue of adding more XP boxes at the workstations
> and also buying an upgraded server. We're thinking about
> getting Small Business Server 2003, although that's probably
> overkill also. I would like to get a server with a RAID setup
> to provide some redundancy--but that's secondary now.
>
> Thanks in advance for any help. I'm sure the people here will
> be able to steer me in the right direction on this one.