Re: Mei Chan [MSFT]
Fred_at_anonymous.com
Date: 03/05/04
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Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 10:55:58 -0500
John,
I got it working and you missed my second response (~10:30 pm) on Wednesday -
check back in this group for the update.
Ken Wickes had me add my AV back to the start up and then remove my AV from the
start up using its own feature to NOT run at boot. That did it and all is
working.
See the last post and thanks to you again.
Fred
americantechie wrote:
> Lol... that figures...
>
> Well you could...
>
> Sorry for the late reply, I was away from the computer yesterday.
>
> You still know there is a needle in a haystack out there somewhere. The
> bottom line is that everything works as advertised in safemode which means
> the parts that have to work are in fact working. There is some peripheral
> item muddying the waters and we can't find it. We know something is wrong
> with the desktop computer which is at least some progress. I would try the
> following...
>
> 1. Boot to the login screen on the desktop computer, if no login screen, set
> a password or add a second account. Leave the computer at the login screen
> and then try to access the shares from the desktop, test the problem from
> the laptop. This is a simple test that will make sure there is no user
> specific settings or software that is causing the problem. As an
> alternative to the above steps you can setup a second user account, log into
> this account, then test the problem again. This probably won't shed any
> light on anything but it is a simple test and sometimes it works.
>
> When you booted into safemode w/ networking support you might have noticed a
> new account show up that you didn't have access to before... that would be
> Administrator... do you boot into this one or use your normal account?
> Remember that Administrator has different settings and different registry
> keys for some areas. This would be another reason to do the above test.
>
> 2. Just for kicks you could try setting up the network with Netbeui or
> IPX/SPX as I explained in an earlier response. If sharing works with a
> different protocol that might add some info to our arsenal (or lack
> thereof).
>
> 3. You could try disabling the Microsft services but be careful, some
> services you really don't want to disable and there are a ton of items in
> this list. I wouldn't do this except as a last resort.
>
> This is tricky as I said before, I will have to think about this one a
> little. In the meantime you can try the above, I would deffinately try a
> different user.
>
> Good luck!
>
> John
>
> <Fred@anonymous.com> wrote in message
> news:40466599.CF8D4CFA@global2000.net...
> > Well, here's where I am as of right now - still FRUSTRATED!
> >
> > I completely removed ZoneAlarm from BOTH the LT and DT computers. I
> disabled my
> > AV (eTrust EZAV) in the processes and startup panels of msconfig.
> >
> > Still cannot delete a file on the DT after using the LT to copy, drag,
> edit,
> > etc. Again, no problem the other way around.
> >
> > So, I decided to reconfigure the network, hoping that with ZA gone and
> EZAV not
> > started all would go well - not the case - same problem.
> >
> > I also did what we talked about, that is disabled ALL startup items and
> non-MS
> > items in processes using msconfig. Same problem. I opened SysInternals
> Viewer
> > and as soon as the LT touches a file in the DT share, at least 3 and
> usually 4
> > handles show up in the "System" listing. I know this means the files
> "cannot be
> > deleted they are being used by another person or program...."
> >
> > Since the network works properly in SafeMode, there has to be a Microsoft
> > Service causing this problem - that's all that is left. Once again, in
> SafeMode,
> > I can place a file in the DT share, access it using the LT, and DELETE it
> from
> > the DT (I can even delete it using the LT).
> >
> > Going back to normal mode, no dice!
> >
> > Thanks again but it looks like I need more help.
> >
> > Fred
> >
> >
> > americantechie wrote:
> >
> > > Hello Fred,
> > >
> > > Just to anwer some of your latest questions...
> > >
> > > First a quick note: Of the items in MSCONFIG, those that are on the
> > > services tab are by far the most important. When I troubleshoot a
> computer
> > > sometimes I don't even look at the startup, I just go straight for the
> > > services tab.
> > >
> > > Zonealarm - good product and powerful, however I have seen it cause it's
> > > fair share of problems. Earlier I mentioned that some software has
> entries
> > > on both the startup and the services tab, I believe Zonealarm is one of
> > > those programs, make sure you hit both areas. When I troubleshoot a
> > > computer with networking programs I like to play it safe by uninstalling
> the
> > > firewall, you can always reinstall it later. Of course you can simply
> > > disable it first but if that doesn't fix the problem I say go ahead and
> > > remove. Other than that I do not have any extra input on removing this
> > > program. You could always do away with this type of headache by
> investing
> > > in a router with filtering capabilities which also acts as a firewall.
> > >
> > > Good luck!
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > > <Fred@anonymous.com> wrote in message
> > > news:40456B8F.DBE517D9@global2000.net...
> > > > Hi John,
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for getting back to me on this one. I wanted to also let you
> know
> > > that I
> > > > also disabled the NIC connection and the problem was still there. Just
> for
> > > your
> > > > info as that was another thing you mentioned.
> > > >
> > > > I've already tried unchecking everything in the "startup" tab and
> tested
> > > with no
> > > > luck there.
> > > >
> > > > I will go the processes route tomorrow and again will report back
> here. I
> > > sure
> > > > hope we find what the heck is going on. I've also created another
> thread
> > > asking
> > > > for ideas about what folks think about the difference between safemode
> and
> > > > normal mode could be as I wasn't sure if you were able to get back to
> me
> > > on this
> > > > thread. No big deal, that can't hurt, I suppose.
> > > >
> > > > Your comments about the firewall have me wondering. Before I got this
> far,
> > > I
> > > > read numerous posts that one should remove the firewall. I have Zone
> Alarm
> > > (free
> > > > version - just updated actually) and before the update I removed it
> and
> > > still
> > > > had the problem. Now I realize that it might be more than just ZA and
> > > could be a
> > > > combination of programs.
> > > >
> > > > Let me get this clear, do you mean totally uninstall it or just
> uncheck
> > > the
> > > > "load at startup" option in ZA. I've seen other posts that say you
> should
> > > also
> > > > delete all the files in the c:\windows\internet logs folder - any
> comments
> > > on
> > > > that?
> > > >
> > > > Lastly, my systems are clean, I regularly run Adaware and Spybot, and
> use
> > > eTrust
> > > > EZAV and update daily manually. I even ran a virus check on my C drive
> > > again
> > > > this afternoon for the hell of it.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks again, John, and I hope I have good news tomorrow.
> > > >
> > > > Fred
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > americantechie wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hello Fred,
> > > > >
> > > > > Excellent troubleshooting, it seems we are getting somewhere! When
> you
> > > run
> > > > > into a tricky problem the only way you can get to a resolution is to
> > > test,
> > > > > test, test. This process is a textbook case of what Microsoft
> support
> > > calls
> > > > > SAFEMODE/CLEANBOOT troubleshooting or and can be used for most
> problems
> > > .
> > > > > This is basically a process of elimation and we will continue this
> > > process
> > > > > from here. You started out in safemode w/ networking which disables
> > > most
> > > > > hardware and software except that which is required to boot the
> computer
> > > and
> > > > > get basic network functionality. We have isolated the problem
> computer
> > > > > (desktop) and know that it also works when in a state of bare bones
> > > > > functionality. We also know the problem lies in either hardware or
> > > software
> > > > > that was disabled but does not appear to be a Windows "system" error
> > > such as
> > > > > corruption because the problem went away in safemode. We will now
> focus
> > > our
> > > > > attention on everything that safemode has disabled. The next step
> is
> > > the
> > > > > "cleanboot" part of the process. The tool we will use from here is
> > > MSCONFIG
> > > > > (start -> run -> msconfig) which allows us to disable services and
> > > software
> > > > > which loads on startup. Note that MSCONFIG does not have the
> ability to
> > > > > disable hardware as safemode did. Hardware could still be a cause
> of
> > > the
> > > > > problem however in this situation it is unlikely. If MSCONFIG does
> not
> > > lead
> > > > > to a resolution then we can revisit this possibility. In the
> MSCONFIG
> > > > > tool you will see tabs across the top, we are only concerned about
> the
> > > last
> > > > > two which are services and startup. The services tab generally
> refers
> > > to
> > > > > programs that actively run in the background such as Anti-Virus
> software
> > > and
> > > > > are non user specific. On this tab make sure you click "hide all
> > > microsoft
> > > > > services". This option makes no physical changes and leaves a list
> that
> > > > > only contains third party services. We do this because it is
> unlikely
> > > that
> > > > > a Microsoft service is causing the problem and some services are
> better
> > > left
> > > > > alone if possible. An example is the system restore service which
> will
> > > kill
> > > > > all of your old restore points when stopped. You are left with a
> much
> > > > > smaller and easier to manage list, uncheck everything and it might
> even
> > > be a
> > > > > good idea to keep a log as you go as things can change. Next click
> on
> > > the
> > > > > startup tab and uncheck everything. Click OK and you will then be
> > > prompted
> > > > > to reboot, click OK to reboot. When the computer comes back up test
> the
> > > > > problem again, if the problem does not appear then we know the
> culprit
> > > lies
> > > > > in one of the items that we unchecked in msconfig. Again... we are
> > > using a
> > > > > process of elimination, you can now go back to MSCONFIG and check
> one
> > > item
> > > > > that we had unchecked earlier, click OK, reboot, test again, rinse,
> > > repeat.
> > > > > Keep doing this until the problem comes back, you will then look at
> your
> > > log
> > > > > to find the last item that was checked and you have found the cause.
> > > Put
> > > > > the computer back to normal, reboot, remove the offending software.
> As
> > > a
> > > > > variation of the above step you can check two items at a time, or
> three,
> > > or
> > > > > you can do a "divide and conquer" approach where you check half of t
> he
> > > > > items, make sure you keep a good log. I have posted a small
> technical
> > > > > handbook so I will stop here, again I have given you lots to chew on
> so
> > > have
> > > > > fun! Please post your results.
> > > > >
> > > > > Extra notes:
> > > > > I would guess that firewalls are one of the biggest call generators
> to
> > > MS
> > > > > networking support, if you have third party firewall software
> installed,
> > > > > REMOVE IT. In some cases even disabling a firewall may not fix a
> > > problem
> > > > > that was caused by the firewall.
> > > > >
> > > > > When rechecking disabled items in msconfig it does not matter if you
> > > start
> > > > > with services or startup as they are all suspects to be treated
> equally.
> > > > > You may see things in one of these tabs that are more obvious as a
> > > possible
> > > > > suspect than others such as firewalls in this case. Make sure you
> keep
> > > a
> > > > > log. Some programs may have enties in both services AND startup,
> the
> > > most
> > > > > important area being services.
> > > > >
> > > > > Before doing any of the above make sure you have disabled any
> Firewall
> > > > > software you may have loaded because
> > > > >
> > > > > Have problems browsing? Keep your computer free of spyware by
> > > installing,
> > > > > UPDATING, then scanning with software such as Adaware. Like
> antivirus
> > > > > software this is only effective if you update the program. This is
> > > another
> > > > > big generator of networking calls to microsoft however it is
> unlikely to
> > > be
> > > > > causing problems in this case.
> > > > >
> > > > > Good luck!
> > > > >
> > > > > John
> > > > >
> > > > > <Fred@anonymous.com> wrote in message
> > > > > news:40452ED3.A17805E5@global2000.net...
> > > > > > Hello John and ??
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Well I did some troubleshooting and got mixed results.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > First of all, I booted both the desktop AND laptop in SAFE MODE
> with
> > > > > Networking.
> > > > > > The good news is everything WORKED! I was able to place a file in
> a
> > > > > desktop
> > > > > > share folder, then access it using the laptop, then delete the
> file on
> > > the
> > > > > > desktop. THIS DOES NOT WORK IN NORMAL MODE.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Next, I booted the laptop in Normal mode and the Desktop in
> SafeMode.
> > > This
> > > > > also
> > > > > > worked!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Next, I booted the laptop in SafeMode and the Desktop in normal
> mode
> > > and
> > > > > it DID
> > > > > > NOT WORK (that is the file on the desktop could not be deleted
> with
> > > the
> > > > > error
> > > > > > message "another person or program is using the file ......"
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So, something on the desktop is causing this problem and the
> something
> > > is
> > > > > what
> > > > > > runs in normal mode versus Safe Mode. Any ideas?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks, Fred
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > americantechie wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hello Fred,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Very nice... I forget about sysinternals, very groovy tools
> baby
> > > *in
> > > > > best
> > > > > > > Austin Powers voice* unfortunately as you say this does not fix
> the
> > > > > problem
> > > > > > > but does shed some light on it. By the way, the error message
> is
> > > > > actually a
> > > > > > > great help also which you just now posted... thank you ;) Ok
> so it
> > > > > appears
> > > > > > > the error is as it says... something is using it. Those dang
> > > handles...
> > > > > try
> > > > > > > my suggestions and if you fix the problem please post...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > John
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > <Fred@anonymous.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > > news:40442465.F0B9C302@global2000.net...
> > > > > > > > Hello John,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks for your thoughts and ideas. I appreciate it very much,
> > > just
> > > > > > > knowing
> > > > > > > > someone is willing to give this some thought and offer ideas
> is
> > > > > comforting
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > some extent.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > One "recommended solution" which works, by the way is using
> > > > > SysInternals
> > > > > > > Process
> > > > > > > > Viewer. I got onto that from a number of the networking
> problem
> > > pages
> > > > > all
> > > > > > > around
> > > > > > > > the web. Basically that program shows "handles" that are on
> the
> > > > > problem
> > > > > > > files or
> > > > > > > > folders.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Here's a URL about it:
> > > > > > > > MSKB Article 242131
> > > > > > > > http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;242131
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > That page has the URL for the SysInternals Process Viewer
> > > > > > > > http://www.sysinternals.com/ntw2k/freeware/procexp.shtml
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > When I put the text file into the shared folder on the
> desktop, a
> > > > > "find"
> > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > Process Viewer shows nothing (NO HANDLES).
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > As soon as I drag that file or whatever (access it from the
> > > laptop)
> > > > > then
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > handles show up. I find that at least three handles and
> usually
> > > five
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > ten show
> > > > > > > > up in Process Viewer. I can manually delete each "handle"
> using
> > > > > Process
> > > > > > > Viewer
> > > > > > > > and after they are gone, I can go to windows explorer and
> delete
> > > the
> > > > > file.
> > > > > > > Both
> > > > > > > > PC's are on and the network is running while this happens.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I just don't understand handles. I know that Process viewer
> can
> > > show
> > > > > them
> > > > > > > and on
> > > > > > > > my desktop they ALL appear under SYSTEM. I've renamed "My
> > > Computer" to
> > > > > > > System,
> > > > > > > > so I'm not sure but perhaps it would be My Computer on another
> > > > > machine.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I would love to know what the heck produces those handles as
> they
> > > are
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > key to
> > > > > > > > this crazy situation. It appears that the handles are the
> things
> > > > > causing
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > error "Cannot delete, another person or program is using the
> > > > > file....."
> > > > > > > Now,
> > > > > > > > what the heck generates/causes the handles???
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I will try the SafeMode with networking and will also try to
> > > disable
> > > > > my
> > > > > > > NIC -
> > > > > > > > I'll just disable the NIC in Network Connections. I will post
> back
> > > > > with
> > > > > > > results
> > > > > > > > on that Tuesday. The other items seem to be really difficult
> and
> > > I'm
> > > > > > > reluctant
> > > > > > > > to go that way at least for now.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks again, John, and take care,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Fred
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > americantechie wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hello Mei Chan,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > This is certainly a tricky one, I have not seen this exact
> > > problem
> > > > > and I
> > > > > > > > > have fixed many home networks.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Do you get any errors when attempting to access the file?
> Does
> > > it
> > > > > > > timeout?
> > > > > > > > > What exactly happens?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > It would be interesting to see if this problem occurs if any
> > > other
> > > > > > > computer
> > > > > > > > > besides your laptop does this to the desktop however this
> might
> > > be
> > > > > > > difficult
> > > > > > > > > to test if you only have two computers. You could perhaps
> try a
> > > VPN
> > > > > > > > > connection from a friends computer... not sure if this would
> be
> > > a
> > > > > good
> > > > > > > test
> > > > > > > > > but I'm just trying to generate ideas. It would really help
> to
> > > be
> > > > > able
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > isolate which computer is causing the problem, or maybe it
> could
> > > be
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > combination of problems on both. Along the same lines you
> > > could
> > > > > also
> > > > > > > try
> > > > > > > > > to access a different computer than your desktop with the
> > > laptop,
> > > > > maybe
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > friend's computer.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Because this problem happens on shared folders anywhere, and
> on
> > > a
> > > > > FAT32
> > > > > > > > > partition I think we could rule out permissions problems.
> It
> > > would
> > > > > also
> > > > > > > > > rule out seem to rule out permissions problems due to the
> non
> > > > > consistent
> > > > > > > > > behavior when accessing the file from the desktop (you
> should
> > > simply
> > > > > be
> > > > > > > able
> > > > > > > > > to access the file or not). There still could be something
> > > funky
> > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > permissions but it is hard to say and this can be a tricky
> area.
> > > At
> > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > > point I would say converting NTFS to FAT32 would be
> pointless as
> > > you
> > > > > > > > > allready have a FAT32 partition to test this on.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > You could try to put both computers into safemode with
> > > networking
> > > > > > > support
> > > > > > > > > and try again, this will disable any third party software
> that
> > > might
> > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > invisibly mucking with your network. This is always a
> simple
> > > test
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > Microsoft support will typically take you through if they
> have
> > > no
> > > > > idea
> > > > > > > what
> > > > > > > > > is going on.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > After accessing the desktop with the laptop, actually
> disable
> > > the
> > > > > NIC or
> > > > > > > > > whatever network adaptor you are using so it kills the
> network
> > > (do
> > > > > this
> > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > the desktop) and then try to access the file (again...
> locally
> > > from
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > desktop). You mentioned you removed the laptop from the
> network
> > > but
> > > > > > > again I
> > > > > > > > > am more interested in seeing the network adaptor disabled on
> the
> > > > > desktop
> > > > > > > > > machine.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > You could try completely disabling TCP/IP, then install
> Netbeui
> > > > > and/or
> > > > > > > > > IPX/SPX and try again...
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Some funky settings especially permissions could be user
> > > specific,
> > > > > each
> > > > > > > user
> > > > > > > > > has his own section in the registry that could get mucked
> up.
> > > On
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > desktop make a new user, log into the desktop with the new
> user,
> > > run
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > test again from start to finish. This is another trick
> > > Microsoft
> > > > > > > support
> > > > > > > > > will sometimes try if nothing else works, once in a while it
> > > > > actually
> > > > > > > works
> > > > > > > > > and it is a quick test.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Related links...
> > > > > > > > >
> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;301041
> > > (how
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > install netbeui on windows xp)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > We could also discuss worst case scenarios/last ditch
> efforts...
> > > > > > > > > You mentioned you have more than one partition on the
> desktop...
> > > you
> > > > > > > could
> > > > > > > > > install XP to this partition if you have enough space left
> over
> > > > > which
> > > > > > > would
> > > > > > > > > setup a dual boot situation. You could boot into the second
> > > > > > > installation
> > > > > > > > > and test out the problem. Here you will have a completely
> clean
> > > > > > > > > installation and if the problem persists then the laptop is
> to
> > > > > blame.
> > > > > > > You
> > > > > > > > > could do this with either the laptop or the desktop.
> Removing
> > > the
> > > > > > > second
> > > > > > > > > installation after the test is real simple, just delete the
> XP
> > > OS
> > > > > > > folders
> > > > > > > > > and remove the second entry from the boot.ini and you are
> back
> > > to
> > > > > > > normal.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I have given you alot to chew on so I will stop here. If it
> > > seems
> > > > > like
> > > > > > > I am
> > > > > > > > > grasping for straws that is because I am ;) If nothing
> else
> > > > > hopefully
> > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > have given you or someone else some ideas of things to try.
> > > > > Sometimes
> > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > > just have to test, test, test to uncover that morsel of
> > > information
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > throws the problem into full light.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Good Luck!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > John
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > <Fred @anonymous.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > > > > news:40440C0F.B6D5708@global2000.net...
> > > > > > > > > > americantechie,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Thanks for your interest, I'll reply in sections divided
> by
> > > ******
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Fred
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > americantechie wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Hello Mei Chan,
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I have no clue whats going on here but I thought I would
> > > take a
> > > > > stab
> > > > > > > at
> > > > > > > > > it.
> > > > > > > > > > > Right offhand I would think the following is
> happening...
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > 1. The file is flagged as non accessible because it is
> in
> > > > > use???
> > > > > > > > > > > 2. The file is temporarily flagged as read only???
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Quote:
> > > > > > > > > > > "If I put a file in the DESKTOP's Shared folder AND
> access
> > > it
> > > > > from
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > LAPTOP, then I cannot delete the desktop file at all
> unless
> > > I
> > > > > reboot
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > desktop."
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Question:
> > > > > > > > > > > You are able to delete the file after rebooting the
> desktop
> > > from
> > > > > > > which
> > > > > > > > > > > computer? The laptop or the desktop or both? I am
> assuming
> > > it
> > > > > > > would be
> > > > > > > > > > > from the desktop only.
> > > > > > > > > > > **************
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I can delete the file from the desktop (where I've
> always
> > > wanted
> > > > > > > to) -
> > > > > > > > > If I
> > > > > > > > > > > access it at all from the laptop, it cannot be deleted.
> The
> > > > > access
> > > > > > > by
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > laptop triggers this reaction on the desktop.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > ******************
> > > > > > > > > > There is not a lot of info to go with here but we can
> gather
> > > more
> > > > > > > > > information by
> > > > > > > > > > running some tests and asking more questions...
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Where is the file in question being shared?
> > > > > > > > > > > Does this happen with any shared file?
> > > > > > > > > > > Has this ever worked correctly?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > *************
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > It doesn't matter. I started with the Documents folder
> (This
> > > is
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > Shared
> > > > > > > > > > Documents folder on my desktop but it is named Documents).
> I
> > > then
> > > > > made
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > folder
> > > > > > > > > > on my D drive (second partition (Fat32) same result. Now
> I'm
> > > using
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > folder
> > > > > > > > > > called A-Share on the C- drive and still the same.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Yes this happens with all files. I'm using a simple text
> file
> > > for
> > > > > all
> > > > > > > my
> > > > > > > > > testing
> > > > > > > > > > but my virus signatures, some DB data files, JPEG images,
> etc.
> > > ALL
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > them
> > > > > > > > > > cannot be edited, renamed, or deleted UNTIL I reboot. I
> can
> > > > > rename,
> > > > > > > edit,
> > > > > > > > > > delete, etc AFTER reboot but BEFORE any access again by
> the
> > > > > laptop.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Has not worked correctly on the desktop. It does work
> > > correctly
> > > > > doing
> > > > > > > > > everything
> > > > > > > > > > on the laptop. By that I mean I can place a file, or
> folder,
> > > into
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > laptop
> > > > > > > > > > share and access it from the desktop. Then AFTER access by
> the
> > > > > > > desktop, I
> > > > > > > > > can
> > > > > > > > > > rename, edit, delete from EITHER the laptop OR the
> Desktop.
> > > > > > > > > > ****************
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > You might try sharing a file in a folder in a different
> > > location
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > hard
> > > > > > > > > > > drive such as in the root of the C: drive, I would
> > > deffinately
> > > > > try
> > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > > if
> > > > > > > > > > > the shared folder is in your "my documents" folder. If
> the
> > > > > problem
> > > > > > > goes
> > > > > > > > > > > away when you share at a different location then the
> problem
> > > may
> > > > > be
> > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > > > permissions on the shared folder.
> > > > > > > > > > > *******
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > This is answered in comments above- tried multiple folders
> on
> > > two
> > > > > > > > > partitions.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > *****************
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > As an alternative to rebooting the computer to delete
> the
> > > > > file...
> > > > > > > try
> > > > > > > > > > > unplugging the desktop from the network or disable the
> > > network
> > > > > > > adaptor
> > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > then try deleting the file. If this works then for some
> > > reason
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > other
> > > > > > > > > > > computer is tying up the file.
> > > > > > > > > > > ******************
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Did that too, disconnecting the laptop after access makes
> no
> > > > > > > difference at
> > > > > > > > > all
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > ***************
> > > > > > > > > > > Other notes:
> > > > > > > > > > > Changing the file system should remove the possibility
> of a
> > > > > > > permissions
> > > > > > > > > > > problem however I am unaware of any method to change
> NTFS to
> > > > > FAT32
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > if
> > > > > > > > > > > there is a way I would only do this as a very last
> resort as
> > > > > there
> > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > risk
> > > > > > > > > > > of data loss and it may not work anyways.
> > > > > > > > > > > ***********
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I've read here in this NG that Partition Magic can do it
> > > although
> > > > > it
> > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > risky. I
> > > > > > > > > > would create an image file before attempting this,
> needless to
> > > > > say.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > ************
> > > > > > > > > > > You are correct, this is a difficult item to
> troubleshoot
> > > over a
> > > > > > > > > newsgroup
> > > > > > > > > > > as are most networking problems.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Good Luck!
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > John
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > <Fred @anonymous.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > > > > > > news:4043D07D.88E1B34C@global2000.net...
> > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Mei Chan,
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for your interest.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Using the laptop, I just tried to open the text file
> in
> > > the
> > > > > > > desktop
> > > > > > > > > share
> > > > > > > > > > > > folder and it opens but I can't edit the text or
> anything.
> > > I
> > > > > can
> > > > > > > copy
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > file
> > > > > > > > > > > > which is really what I wanted to do.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I cannot delete the files (on the desktop) from either
> the
> > > > > laptop
> > > > > > > or
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > desktop.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Once again, if I do it the other way (file in laptop
> > > share)
> > > > > then I
> > > > > > > can
> > > > > > > > > > > delete,
> > > > > > > > > > > > edit, whatever.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks and hope this helps.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Fred
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > "Mei Chan [MSFT]" wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Fred,
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > From your Laptop, can you create / edit your files
> on
> > > your
> > > > > > > Desktop's
> > > > > > > > > > > share?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Is the problem specific with only deleting the files
> on
> > > the
> > > > > > > share?
> > > > > > > > > Can
> > > > > > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > > > > > > delete your files from local machine itself
> (Desktop)?
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Mei
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------
> > > > > > > > > > > > > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties,
> and
> > > > > confers
> > > > > > > no
> > > > > > > > > > > rights.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > <Fred@anonymous.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > > > > > > > > news:4043B390.5CE90886@global2000.net...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Mei Chan,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have posted my problem at least four times now
> with
> > > > > little
> > > > > > > or no
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > response on this newsgroup which is frustrating to
> say
> > > the
> > > > > > > least.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have WinXP Home on a Desktop and Laptop. They
> are
> > > > > networked
> > > > > > > > > using a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > router and wireless card. Internet works fine.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can put a file in the LAPTOP's Shared folder and
> > > access
> > > > > it
> > > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > DESKTOP - I can delete the laptop file from either
> PC.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > If I put a file in the DESKTOP's Shared folder AND
> > > access
> > > > > it
> > > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > LAPTOP, then I cannot delete the desktop file at
> all
> > > > > unless I
> > > > > > > > > reboot
> > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > desktop. It appears that the access by the laptop
> > > changes
> > > > > > > > > something
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > drastically. I've tried shutting down explorer, no
> > > > > success - I
> > > > > > > > > have to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > re-boot to delete the desktop files.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > SInce no one has offered a clue about this then I
> must
> > > > > have a
> > > > > > > real
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > unique problem. What if I try to convert my
> current
> > > NTFS
> > > > > file
> > > > > > > > > system
> > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > FAT32? If this has been caused by "permissions"
> etc.
> > > under
> > > > > > > NTFS,
> > > > > > > > > will
> > > > > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > go away if I can convert to FAT32 using Partition
> > > Magic?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any reply will be sincerely appreciated.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, Fred
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
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