Re: Mei Chan [MSFT]

Fred_at_anonymous.com
Date: 03/02/04 

Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 01:06:29 -0500

Hello John,

Thanks for your thoughts and ideas. I appreciate it very much, just knowing
someone is willing to give this some thought and offer ideas is comforting to
some extent.

One "recommended solution" which works, by the way is using SysInternals Process
Viewer. I got onto that from a number of the networking problem pages all around
the web. Basically that program shows "handles" that are on the problem files or
folders.

Here's a URL about it:
MSKB Article 242131
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;242131

That page has the URL for the SysInternals Process Viewer
http://www.sysinternals.com/ntw2k/freeware/procexp.shtml

When I put the text file into the shared folder on the desktop, a "find" on
Process Viewer shows nothing (NO HANDLES).

As soon as I drag that file or whatever (access it from the laptop) then the
handles show up. I find that at least three handles and usually five to ten show
up in Process Viewer. I can manually delete each "handle" using Process Viewer
and after they are gone, I can go to windows explorer and delete the file. Both
PC's are on and the network is running while this happens.

I just don't understand handles. I know that Process viewer can show them and on
my desktop they ALL appear under SYSTEM. I've renamed "My Computer" to System,
so I'm not sure but perhaps it would be My Computer on another machine.

I would love to know what the heck produces those handles as they are the key to
this crazy situation. It appears that the handles are the things causing the
error "Cannot delete, another person or program is using the file....." Now,
what the heck generates/causes the handles???

I will try the SafeMode with networking and will also try to disable my NIC -
I'll just disable the NIC in Network Connections. I will post back with results
on that Tuesday. The other items seem to be really difficult and I'm reluctant
to go that way at least for now.

Thanks again, John, and take care,

Fred

americantechie wrote:

> Hello Mei Chan,
>
> This is certainly a tricky one, I have not seen this exact problem and I
> have fixed many home networks.
>
> Do you get any errors when attempting to access the file? Does it timeout?
> What exactly happens?
>
> It would be interesting to see if this problem occurs if any other computer
> besides your laptop does this to the desktop however this might be difficult
> to test if you only have two computers. You could perhaps try a VPN
> connection from a friends computer... not sure if this would be a good test
> but I'm just trying to generate ideas. It would really help to be able to
> isolate which computer is causing the problem, or maybe it could be a
> combination of problems on both. Along the same lines you could also try
> to access a different computer than your desktop with the laptop, maybe a
> friend's computer.
>
> Because this problem happens on shared folders anywhere, and on a FAT32
> partition I think we could rule out permissions problems. It would also
> rule out seem to rule out permissions problems due to the non consistent
> behavior when accessing the file from the desktop (you should simply be able
> to access the file or not). There still could be something funky with
> permissions but it is hard to say and this can be a tricky area. At this
> point I would say converting NTFS to FAT32 would be pointless as you
> allready have a FAT32 partition to test this on.
>
> You could try to put both computers into safemode with networking support
> and try again, this will disable any third party software that might be
> invisibly mucking with your network. This is always a simple test that
> Microsoft support will typically take you through if they have no idea what
> is going on.
>
> After accessing the desktop with the laptop, actually disable the NIC or
> whatever network adaptor you are using so it kills the network (do this on
> the desktop) and then try to access the file (again... locally from the
> desktop). You mentioned you removed the laptop from the network but again I
> am more interested in seeing the network adaptor disabled on the desktop
> machine.
>
> You could try completely disabling TCP/IP, then install Netbeui and/or
> IPX/SPX and try again...
>
> Some funky settings especially permissions could be user specific, each user
> has his own section in the registry that could get mucked up. On the
> desktop make a new user, log into the desktop with the new user, run the
> test again from start to finish. This is another trick Microsoft support
> will sometimes try if nothing else works, once in a while it actually works
> and it is a quick test.
>
> Related links...
> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;301041 (how to
> install netbeui on windows xp)
>
> We could also discuss worst case scenarios/last ditch efforts...
> You mentioned you have more than one partition on the desktop... you could
> install XP to this partition if you have enough space left over which would
> setup a dual boot situation. You could boot into the second installation
> and test out the problem. Here you will have a completely clean
> installation and if the problem persists then the laptop is to blame. You
> could do this with either the laptop or the desktop. Removing the second
> installation after the test is real simple, just delete the XP OS folders
> and remove the second entry from the boot.ini and you are back to normal.
>
> I have given you alot to chew on so I will stop here. If it seems like I am
> grasping for straws that is because I am ;) If nothing else hopefully I
> have given you or someone else some ideas of things to try. Sometimes you
> just have to test, test, test to uncover that morsel of information that
> throws the problem into full light.
>
> Good Luck!
>
> John
>
> <Fred @anonymous.com> wrote in message
> news:40440C0F.B6D5708@global2000.net...
> > americantechie,
> >
> > Thanks for your interest, I'll reply in sections divided by ******
> >
> > Fred
> >
> > americantechie wrote:
> >
> > > Hello Mei Chan,
> > >
> > > I have no clue whats going on here but I thought I would take a stab at
> it.
> > > Right offhand I would think the following is happening...
> > >
> > > 1. The file is flagged as non accessible because it is in use???
> > > 2. The file is temporarily flagged as read only???
> > >
> > > Quote:
> > > "If I put a file in the DESKTOP's Shared folder AND access it from the
> > > LAPTOP, then I cannot delete the desktop file at all unless I reboot the
> > > desktop."
> > >
> > > Question:
> > > You are able to delete the file after rebooting the desktop from which
> > > computer? The laptop or the desktop or both? I am assuming it would be
> > > from the desktop only.
> > > **************
> >
> > > I can delete the file from the desktop (where I've always wanted to) -
> If I
> > > access it at all from the laptop, it cannot be deleted. The access by
> the
> > > laptop triggers this reaction on the desktop.
> >
> > ******************
> > There is not a lot of info to go with here but we can gather more
> information by
> > running some tests and asking more questions...
> >
> > > Where is the file in question being shared?
> > > Does this happen with any shared file?
> > > Has this ever worked correctly?
> > >
> > > *************
> >
> > It doesn't matter. I started with the Documents folder (This is the Shared
> > Documents folder on my desktop but it is named Documents). I then made a
> folder
> > on my D drive (second partition (Fat32) same result. Now I'm using a
> folder
> > called A-Share on the C- drive and still the same.
> >
> > Yes this happens with all files. I'm using a simple text file for all my
> testing
> > but my virus signatures, some DB data files, JPEG images, etc. ALL of them
> > cannot be edited, renamed, or deleted UNTIL I reboot. I can rename, edit,
> > delete, etc AFTER reboot but BEFORE any access again by the laptop.
> >
> > Has not worked correctly on the desktop. It does work correctly doing
> everything
> > on the laptop. By that I mean I can place a file, or folder, into the
> laptop
> > share and access it from the desktop. Then AFTER access by the desktop, I
> can
> > rename, edit, delete from EITHER the laptop OR the Desktop.
> > ****************
> >
> > > You might try sharing a file in a folder in a different location of the
> hard
> > > drive such as in the root of the C: drive, I would deffinately try this
> if
> > > the shared folder is in your "my documents" folder. If the problem goes
> > > away when you share at a different location then the problem may be with
> > > permissions on the shared folder.
> > > *******
> >
> > This is answered in comments above- tried multiple folders on two
> partitions.
> >
> > > *****************
> >
> > > As an alternative to rebooting the computer to delete the file... try
> > > unplugging the desktop from the network or disable the network adaptor
> and
> > > then try deleting the file. If this works then for some reason the
> other
> > > computer is tying up the file.
> > > ******************
> >
> > Did that too, disconnecting the laptop after access makes no difference at
> all
> >
> > > ***************
> > > Other notes:
> > > Changing the file system should remove the possibility of a permissions
> > > problem however I am unaware of any method to change NTFS to FAT32 and
> if
> > > there is a way I would only do this as a very last resort as there is
> risk
> > > of data loss and it may not work anyways.
> > > ***********
> >
> > I've read here in this NG that Partition Magic can do it although it is
> risky. I
> > would create an image file before attempting this, needless to say.
> >
> > > ************
> > > You are correct, this is a difficult item to troubleshoot over a
> newsgroup
> > > as are most networking problems.
> > >
> > > Good Luck!
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > > <Fred @anonymous.com> wrote in message
> > > news:4043D07D.88E1B34C@global2000.net...
> > > > Hello Mei Chan,
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for your interest.
> > > >
> > > > Using the laptop, I just tried to open the text file in the desktop
> share
> > > > folder and it opens but I can't edit the text or anything. I can copy
> the
> > > file
> > > > which is really what I wanted to do.
> > > >
> > > > I cannot delete the files (on the desktop) from either the laptop or
> the
> > > > desktop.
> > > >
> > > > Once again, if I do it the other way (file in laptop share) then I can
> > > delete,
> > > > edit, whatever.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks and hope this helps.
> > > >
> > > > Fred
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Mei Chan [MSFT]" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Fred,
> > > > >
> > > > > From your Laptop, can you create / edit your files on your Desktop's
> > > share?
> > > > > Is the problem specific with only deleting the files on the share?
> Can
> > > you
> > > > > delete your files from local machine itself (Desktop)?
> > > > >
> > > > > Mei
> > > > >
> > > > > ----------
> > > > > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
> > > rights.
> > > > > ----------
> > > > >
> > > > > <Fred@anonymous.com> wrote in message
> > > > > news:4043B390.5CE90886@global2000.net...
> > > > > > Hi Mei Chan,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have posted my problem at least four times now with little or no
> > > > > > response on this newsgroup which is frustrating to say the least.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have WinXP Home on a Desktop and Laptop. They are networked
> using a
> > > > > > router and wireless card. Internet works fine.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I can put a file in the LAPTOP's Shared folder and access it from
> the
> > > > > > DESKTOP - I can delete the laptop file from either PC.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If I put a file in the DESKTOP's Shared folder AND access it from
> the
> > > > > > LAPTOP, then I cannot delete the desktop file at all unless I
> reboot
> > > the
> > > > > >
> > > > > > desktop. It appears that the access by the laptop changes
> something
> > > > > > drastically. I've tried shutting down explorer, no success - I
> have to
> > > > > > re-boot to delete the desktop files.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > SInce no one has offered a clue about this then I must have a real
> > > > > > unique problem. What if I try to convert my current NTFS file
> system
> > > to
> > > > > > FAT32? If this has been caused by "permissions" etc. under NTFS,
> will
> > > it
> > > > > > go away if I can convert to FAT32 using Partition Magic?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Any reply will be sincerely appreciated.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks, Fred
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > >
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