Re: Re: Preserving DV Quality: NTSC and AV-DVI -
- From: "PapaJohn \(MVP\)" <PapaJohn@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 23:16:45 -0400
Rob,
You said that you archive to DV-AVI type II... can I assume you use data
DVDs.
How do you assess the quality/success of the transferred files on the DVD?
--
PapaJohn
Movie Maker 2 and Photo Story 3 website - http://www.papajohn.org
tips and tricks: http://www.simplydv.co.uk/simplyBB/viewtopic.php?t=4693
Online Newsletters: http://www.windowsmoviemakers.net/PapaJohn/Index.aspx
"eeyore" <rob.pugh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:42e825dc$0$25537$afc38c87@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> While I hesitate to get involved, and some of what I am raising is
> spelling out things implied by previous posts, here goes:
>
> This is long the summary would be
> . I use DVD and am happy with it but the process requires some self
> management
> . Tape may well be the way to go for most people, though I consider they
> should perform very regular archive renewal ie copy it to the PC and out
> to new tapes every 2-4 years)
>
>
>
>
> I take archiving and backup very seriously (though I stress I do not claim
> to be an expert). All data on my PC is kept off the C drive and is backed
> up or archived and stored on site for easy access and off site in case of
> loss of PC.
>
> My normal documents etc are backed up (ie a copy is retained for a time
> then turned over as my data changes). My video and photos and projects are
> archived to two copies. I am a home family videoer and therefore only
> produce 2 gb of photos and 10 hours of DV per year. I archive as i go.
> Video is archived as DV-AVI Type II.
>
> Issues I considered in choosing an archive media were:
> 1. Media reliability - ie how long can the media be expected to last if
> kept in good environmental conditions.
> 2. Environment - giving the media its best chance to meet its
> specifications. This related to was it possible to find a place at low
> cost and would I know if it was safe.
> 3. Media compatibility - I intend to have this stuff available when my
> children are twenty on and preferably when their children are twenty
> one. - beyond that who knows. The PC is now 30 odd years old and I don't
> know what I would do with a 5.25 disk if I needed to get to it today.
> 4. File compatibility - similar to the above, but related to file formats
> and software to read them
> 5. Ease of use
>
> Media Reliability:
> I archive to DVD only as I trust the optical media more than magnetic
> tape. There are just too many magnetic interference sources around and
> gradual degradation could result in absolute failure of sections.
> The same is true for DVD, however with DVD it is a question of quality,
> with DV tapes it is inherent in the media.
> I have not seen a claim of true (100 years)archival quality for mini DV
> tapes. Mag tape solutions solutions that do make those claims are
> typically for professional movie houses $120 per hour or more and specify
> an environment we could not afford.I used Japanese produced TDKs until
> they ceased to be available in my local stores and now use
> verbatims......and I check the digital marks to assure myself (as best as
> possible) that they are genuine.
>
> Environment:
> Both archives are stored in a cool, dry environment with limited air
> movement, in protective sleeves. This maximises the media reliability.
> This is the best I can do. With DV tapes i concluded that I could not
> create a reliable interference free zone where I was able to store my
> archive - I could not test and I store archive 2 at my in-laws...while I
> can seal the box from atmospheric changes i could not see how to prevent
> speakers or any electrical source operating near by. With magnetic media
> even a small source can impact over a long period.
>
> Renewal: If I used tape I would consider regeneration very 2 years or so.
> With DVD I still intend to consider this every 10 years. More to ensure
> ongoing compatibility of storage media and of file formats.
>
> Ease of use: I have no doubts that using minidv is an easier process. For
> the originals you just store them away and for movie development you
> basically set it and let it go for an hour per hour of movie.Use of DVD's
> is more complex and more time consuming for the user.
>
> In the end I prefer DVD but I run with a relatively complex process and I
> have a well controlled process. Most people would probably consider it
> onerous and not keep it up.
>
> Tape may well be the way to go for most people, though I consider they
> should perform very regular archive renewal ie copy it to the PC and out
> to new tapes every 2-4 years)
>
>
>
> Rob
>
>
> Al Stu wrote:
>> "so far my wedding tapes have lasted longer than the marriages..."
>>
>> This does not surprise me, especially if they are of your marriages.
>>
>> $2.75 vs. $4.50 maximum for 5x the life span, and random accessibility to
>> boot.
>>
>>
>> "PapaJohn (MVP)" <PapaJohn@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>> news:OFojrGukFHA.2180@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>>>My tapes are currently running about $2.75 each for Maxells in an 8 pack
>>>at Sam's Club. It can take a full hour of DV-AVI, while you would need 3
>>>data DVDs for an hour of DV-AVI files... so your buck-fifty times 3 gets
>>>you over the price of a tape.
>>>
>>>Yup, we read of the breakdown of tapes, discs, and everything else...
>>>more backups is always better... so far my wedding tapes have lasted
>>>longer than the marriages...
>>>
>>>Most people don't do backups, so any form of backing up is a big step
>>>forward.
>>>--
>>>PapaJohn
>>>Movie Maker 2 and Photo Story 3 website - http://www.papajohn.org
>>>
>>>tips and tricks: http://www.simplydv.co.uk/simplyBB/viewtopic.php?t=4693
>>>
>>>Online Newsletters: http://www.windowsmoviemakers.net/PapaJohn/Index.aspx
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"Al Stu" <NOYB@xxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>>>news:uZ6Eh9tkFHA.576@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>
>>>>"keep all your originals."
>>>>"copy it to a digital camcorder tape too for a higher quality copy than
>>>>the DVD."
>>>>
>>>>But don't rely on DV tape as an archive. I have read in forums at
>>>>CamcorderInfo.com that storage density on DV tape is being pushed so
>>>>tight they can start losing data within as little as a year or two. I
>>>>have no personal experience of this though as I don't use DV tapes for
>>>>archives, but rather archive all footage in DV-AVI format and completed
>>>>Movie Maker projects to data DVD +R. At no more than a buck fifty each
>>>>it's also very cost effective, even cheaper than tape, unless buying
>>>>el-cheep-o tapes, and who would trust that with an archive.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"PapaJohn (MVP)" <PapaJohn@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>>>>news:OuDv%23YtkFHA.3544@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>
>>>>>Yes, using the DV-AVI format is best to preserve the quality from your
>>>>>camcorder tape.
>>>>>
>>>>>Not only do you need about 13 GB of space for a captured one hour tape,
>>>>>you'll need another 13 GB to hold the saved movie, and more space for
>>>>>some working elbow room.... 30 GB free is still on the tight side.
>>>>>
>>>>>An external drive would work... as long as you have a USB2 or firewire
>>>>>connection for it... firewire is probably better but USB2 works also.
>>>>>
>>>>>As we look back on older videos, using better computers and screens,
>>>>>the lower quality is more apparent... there's no way to recover it once
>>>>>lost... so keep all your originals. And when you make a high quality
>>>>>movie that goes to a DVD, copy it to a digital camcorder tape too for a
>>>>>higher quality copy than the DVD.
>>>>>--
>>>>>PapaJohn
>>>>>Movie Maker 2 and Photo Story 3 website - http://www.papajohn.org
>>>>>
>>>>>tips and tricks:
>>>>>http://www.simplydv.co.uk/simplyBB/viewtopic.php?t=4693
>>>>>
>>>>>Online Newsletters:
>>>>>http://www.windowsmoviemakers.net/PapaJohn/Index.aspx
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"luddite" <levenbac@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>>>>>news:BF7D5CAF-55EB-473F-83A8-8B36D1BFE8B9@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>
>>>>>>Hello, experts...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Our family purchased a DV camcorder last year and I have been slowly
>>>>>>trying
>>>>>>to do more sophisticated things using MM.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Since we didn't own a DVD player initially, I had recorded all video
>>>>>>using
>>>>>>the High Quality NTSC option in MM. I edited and watched movies on
>>>>>>our
>>>>>>computer and burned it to VCDs. The quality was fuzzy, but otherwise
>>>>>>fine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>More recent movies made in MM appear much more pixelated and blurry
>>>>>>than
>
>>>>>>those I made last year. I am using the same computer to record and
>
>>>>>>edit the
>>>>>>video. When the camcorder is connected directly to the television,
>>>>>>the
>>>>>>original digital video quality is excellent.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I don't know what might account for the observed deterioration in
>>>>>>quality of
>>>>>>movies made in MM, but I need to find a way to preserve high quality
>>>>>>movies
>>>>>>for my family. After combing through the archives of this site, it
>>>>>>appears
>>>>>>that the best way to preserve high quality DV footage from a camcorder
>>>>>>is to
>>>>>>record and burn to DVD in DV-AVI format.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>If that's the case, I have a couple questions:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>1) My hard drive disk space only has 7 GB left. Can I free up space
>>>>>>to
>>>>>>have 14 GB available to record (and edit) an hour of DV-AVI footage or
>>>>>>should
>>>>>>I buy an external drive?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>2) What type of DVD burner should I get so that we view them with an
>>>>>>older
>>>>>>DVD player? It appears there are multiple DVD formats...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>3) Is there any way to capture DV footage using the "High Quality
>>>>>>NTSC"
>>>>>>option and watch it in full screen mode on the computer without all
>>>>>>the
>>>>>>pixelation/distortion?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Thanks!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
.
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