LONG: Re: Preserving DV Quality: NTSC and AV-DVI -

While I hesitate to get involved, and some of what I am raising is spelling out things implied by previous posts, here goes:

This is long the summary would be
.. I use DVD and am happy with it but the process requires some self management
.. Tape may well be the way to go for most people, though I consider they should perform very regular archive renewal ie copy it to the PC and out to new tapes every 2-4 years)




I take archiving and backup very seriously (though I stress I do not claim to be an expert). All data on my PC is kept off the C drive and is backed up or archived and stored on site for easy access and off site in case of loss of PC.

My normal documents etc are backed up (ie a copy is retained for a time then turned over as my data changes). My video and photos and projects are archived to two copies. I am a home family videoer and therefore only produce 2 gb of photos and 10 hours of DV per year. I archive as i go. Video is archived as DV-AVI Type II.

Issues I considered in choosing an archive media were:
1. Media reliability - ie how long can the media be expected to last if kept in good environmental conditions.
2. Environment - giving the media its best chance to meet its specifications. This related to was it possible to find a place at low cost and would I know if it was safe.
3. Media compatibility - I intend to have this stuff available when my children are twenty on and preferably when their children are twenty one. - beyond that who knows. The PC is now 30 odd years old and I don't know what I would do with a 5.25 disk if I needed to get to it today.
4. File compatibility - similar to the above, but related to file formats and software to read them
5. Ease of use

Media Reliability:
I archive to DVD only as I trust the optical media more than magnetic tape. There are just too many magnetic interference sources around and gradual degradation could result in absolute failure of sections.
The same is true for DVD, however with DVD it is a question of quality, with DV tapes it is inherent in the media.
I have not seen a claim of true (100 years)archival quality for mini DV tapes. Mag tape solutions solutions that do make those claims are typically for professional movie houses $120 per hour or more and specify an environment we could not afford.I used Japanese produced TDKs until they ceased to be available in my local stores and now use verbatims......and I check the digital marks to assure myself (as best as possible) that they are genuine.

Environment:
Both archives are stored in a cool, dry environment with limited air movement, in protective sleeves. This maximises the media reliability. This is the best I can do. With DV tapes i concluded that I could not create a reliable interference free zone where I was able to store my archive - I could not test and I store archive 2 at my in-laws...while I can seal the box from atmospheric changes i could not see how to prevent speakers or any electrical source operating near by. With magnetic media even a small source can impact over a long period.

Renewal: If I used tape I would consider regeneration very 2 years or so. With DVD I still intend to consider this every 10 years. More to ensure ongoing compatibility of storage media and of file formats.

Ease of use: I have no doubts that using minidv is an easier process. For the originals you just store them away and for movie development you basically set it and let it go for an hour per hour of movie.Use of DVD's is more complex and more time consuming for the user.

In the end I prefer DVD but I run with a relatively complex process and I have a well controlled process. Most people would probably consider it onerous and not keep it up.

Tape may well be the way to go for most people, though I consider they should perform very regular archive renewal ie copy it to the PC and out to new tapes every 2-4 years)



Rob


Al Stu wrote: 
"so far my wedding tapes have lasted longer than  the marriages..."

This does not surprise me, especially if they are of your marriages.

$2.75 vs. $4.50 maximum for 5x the life span, and random accessibility to boot.


"PapaJohn (MVP)" <PapaJohn@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:OFojrGukFHA.2180@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

My tapes are currently running about $2.75 each for Maxells in an 8 pack at Sam's Club. It can take a full hour of DV-AVI, while you would need 3 data DVDs for an hour of DV-AVI files... so your buck-fifty times 3 gets you over the price of a tape.

Yup, we read of the breakdown of tapes, discs, and everything else... more backups is always better... so far my wedding tapes have lasted longer than the marriages...

Most people don't do backups, so any form of backing up is a big step forward.
--
PapaJohn
Movie Maker 2 and Photo Story 3 website - http://www.papajohn.org

tips and tricks: http://www.simplydv.co.uk/simplyBB/viewtopic.php?t=4693

Online Newsletters: http://www.windowsmoviemakers.net/PapaJohn/Index.aspx



"Al Stu" <NOYB@xxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:uZ6Eh9tkFHA.576@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

"keep all your originals."
"copy it to a digital camcorder tape too for a higher quality copy than the DVD."

But don't rely on DV tape as an archive. I have read in forums at CamcorderInfo.com that storage density on DV tape is being pushed so tight they can start losing data within as little as a year or two. I have no personal experience of this though as I don't use DV tapes for archives, but rather archive all footage in DV-AVI format and completed Movie Maker projects to data DVD +R. At no more than a buck fifty each it's also very cost effective, even cheaper than tape, unless buying el-cheep-o tapes, and who would trust that with an archive.



"PapaJohn (MVP)" <PapaJohn@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:OuDv%23YtkFHA.3544@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Yes, using the DV-AVI format is best to preserve the quality from your camcorder tape.

Not only do you need about 13 GB of space for a captured one hour tape, you'll need another 13 GB to hold the saved movie, and more space for some working elbow room.... 30 GB free is still on the tight side.

An external drive would work... as long as you have a USB2 or firewire connection for it... firewire is probably better but USB2 works also.

As we look back on older videos, using better computers and screens, the lower quality is more apparent... there's no way to recover it once lost... so keep all your originals. And when you make a high quality movie that goes to a DVD, copy it to a digital camcorder tape too for a higher quality copy than the DVD.
--
PapaJohn
Movie Maker 2 and Photo Story 3 website - http://www.papajohn.org

tips and tricks: http://www.simplydv.co.uk/simplyBB/viewtopic.php?t=4693

Online Newsletters: http://www.windowsmoviemakers.net/PapaJohn/Index.aspx



"luddite" <levenbac@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:BF7D5CAF-55EB-473F-83A8-8B36D1BFE8B9@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Hello, experts...

Our family purchased a DV camcorder last year and I have been slowly trying
to do more sophisticated things using MM.

Since we didn't own a DVD player initially, I had recorded all video using
the High Quality NTSC option in MM. I edited and watched movies on our
computer and burned it to VCDs. The quality was fuzzy, but otherwise fine.

More recent movies made in MM appear much more pixelated and blurry than

those I made last year. I am using the same computer to record and 

edit the
video.  When the camcorder is connected directly to the television, the
original digital video quality is excellent.

I don't know what might account for the observed deterioration in quality of
movies made in MM, but I need to find a way to preserve high quality movies
for my family. After combing through the archives of this site, it appears
that the best way to preserve high quality DV footage from a camcorder is to
record and burn to DVD in DV-AVI format.

If that's the case, I have a couple questions:

1) My hard drive disk space only has 7 GB left. Can I free up space to
have 14 GB available to record (and edit) an hour of DV-AVI footage or should
I buy an external drive?

2) What type of DVD burner should I get so that we view them with an older
DVD player? It appears there are multiple DVD formats...

3) Is there any way to capture DV footage using the "High Quality NTSC"
option and watch it in full screen mode on the computer without all the
pixelation/distortion?

Thanks!










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