Re: Casper 5 - One for Anna

<see below>
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Leonard Grey
Errare humanum est

Bill in Co. wrote:
Richie Hardwick wrote:
On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 01:08:53 -0700, "Bill in Co."
<not_really_here@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Richie Hardwick wrote:
On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 23:59:25 -0700, "Bill in Co."
<not_really_here@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Those different, dated backups are ALSO very nice to have on hand in
case you've inadvertently backed up a hosed system where you haven't
discovered that it is hosed until after your most recent backup has
been made.

Can't do that with Casper, because it only has ONE "backup" to restore
from.

OK, I'm STILL confused about some of this, even after all the discussions
we've had here before on this, including some with Anna. You say Casper
has only ONE backup to restore from, but I thought with Casper you could
also make multiple, partition type clone backups to the backup drive,
storing several different partition copies over there, so that you could
choose which one (somewhat analogous to which image) to restore from.
IOW, if my intenal source drive has a 40 GB system and program partition,
and that's the only thing I'm ever backing up and restoring, couldn't Casper
save different dated partition type clones of that on the backup drive?
I guess they'd all have to have different drive letters though, which may
be a bit messy for me.
NO. A clone is a clone is a clone and is only ONE backup.

First operation is to clone the source drive... i.e., make another
drive an exact copy of the source drive.

One can then make at-will "incremental" clones or updates of the
original clone, resulting each time in the other drive being an exact
copy of the source drive once again. Incremental clones take far less
time to complete, and that's the beauty of them.

There is only ONE clone, no matter how many "incremental" clone
operations are performed.

I hope you understand it now. You have certainly not had a shortage
of help trying to bring you up to speed on this.

Richie Hardwick
Well, I'm a tad old, so please give me some more allowance here.
I'm a tad old myself: I've been retired for over a year.

You are saying then that the backup drive can ONLY store ONE copy of the
source partition (or drive), period. One, and only one backup can be
stored, no matter what. If you want another, you'll have to delete the
first one.
Stop thinking "backup" when talking about cloning. A CLONE is a HARD
DRIVE OR A PARTITION. It is an exact duplicate of another hard drive
or partition. Got that so far????

That was never in doubt Richie. The point you seem to be confusing is thinking that I think that a backup is simply copying a bunch of files. I never said that. I use the term creating a backup much more broadly - to me it includes cloning and imaging. I do NOT mean just the copying of files over to a destination drive.

When you "clone a drive" or "clone a partition" you make a different
drive or partition an exact copy of the source drive/partition. If
your source drive/partition changes, then you have to clone it again,
or with Casper you do an incremental clone.

IOW, it is impossible to save multiple partition-based clones on ONE backup
hard drive (that is, can't save more than ONE of anything on the backup
drive, if one uses Casper).
Stop thinking "backup" when talking about Casper and start thinking
"duplicate drive/partition". You can have as many cloned drives as
you have spare hard drives. You can have as many cloned partitions as
you have spare partitions.

OK. I gather you don't like my choice of the word backup in this context. I call it a backup.

But there is another option that some programs like BING (BootIT NG) will
allow, however. With BING, you CAN store multiple (different dated) backup
partition copies (of the source partition) on ONE single backup drive.
These are NOT image backups, they are *partition* backups
You are responsible for your own confusion here because you won't nail
down the proper terms for what you're talking about. You are bouncing
around/combining the terms "backup", "image" and "clone".

An "image" is a file. A "clone" is a hard drive or a partition. Both
can be a "backup".

Exactly!! (that was never in dispute!)

(I'd almost call them cloned partition backups). So it gets a bit
confusing (at least to me).
Use the word "clone" ONLY when you are talking about making a drive or
partition an exact copy of another drive or partition. Do NOT
continue to use it interchangeably with "image" or "copy", and don't
even use it WITH either of those terms.

A disk can be imaged or cloned. ATI can do both. Casper can only
clone a disk.

A partition can be imaged or cloned. ATI can image a partition, but
not clone one. Casper cannot image a partition, but it can clone one.

Right.

From your description of BING, it is apparent that it images
partitions. BECAUSE if it CLONED the partitions, a BUNCH OF
PARTITIONS would be the end result, not a bunch of files.

THAT is exactly what happens, Richie (and I *have* used BING). That's my point, and in part why this whole discussion has been somewhat confusing. Using BING, the backup drive is containing several partition clones of the source drive's system partition. So it is NOT really accurate to simply state "a clone is a duplicate of the source drive". THAT is much too ambiguous.


I'll stick my unwanted nose in here:

Not that it matters a whole lot, but there is a small difference between a clone and an image, as these terms are commonly used.

An image excludes unused space on the disk, and most imaging applications also exclude certain files that don't need backing up, such as the page file and the hibernation file. A clone, on the other hand, is an exact duplicate, including everything.

If backing up is your goal, all you need is an image. Clones are used for forensic purposes, as in a criminal investigation.

"Ghosting" and variations of that term were coined by Binary Research for their disk imaging program (later purchased by Symantec) called Ghost. In other words, it's a marketing term.

Strictly speaking, you image or clone an entire disk. But since a disk partition is the functional equivalent of a complete disk, it's easy to confuse disk imaging and partition imaging. It would be better to use the generic term "volume".

Some imaging programs can backup multiple partitions into one image file, while others put only one partition into an image file, so if your physical hard disk is partitioned you will make several image files to backup the complete disk. There's no practical difference, but many people find it conceptually easier to deal with one image file for a partitioned disk.
.

Relevant Pages

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  • Re: Casper 5 - One for Anna
    ... because it only has ONE "backup" to restore ... also make multiple, partition type clone backups to the backup drive, ... A clone is a clone is a clone and is only ONE backup. ... You can have as many cloned drives as ...
    (microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support)