Re: XP Home rebooting randomly

From: Janice (jem16_at_nospammail.com)
Date: 07/10/04 

Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 19:23:07 +0100

Hi,

I've tried to answer your questions as you asked them.

"WinGuy" <no_spam@nomail.bot> wrote in message
news:uNVHc.8676$eu6.3872@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com...
> "Janice" <jem16@nospammail.com> wrote in message
> news:OWsarbpZEHA.3664@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> > Hi,
> >
> > Our posts have overlapped a bit.
> >
> > On the master IDE I have the main HD and a CD Writer. On the secondary
IDE
> I
> > have another HD and a CD-Rom. If I read the error message correctly,
it's
> > the secondary IDE that has the fault. I can easily disconnect both of
> > these - but the shop doesn't think this would cause the reboot as I'm
not
> > accessing either of these at the time of the crash.
>
> The unit that I serviced just last week had a failed HDD. I replaced it. A
> good ways into restoring the operating system the new HDD started to fail.
> It turned out that one of the 2 CD drives had also failed, which I
detected
> by disconnecting the HDD booting to dos using a diskette and trying to
> access the CD drives; one was ok, the other was not. Replaced the CD drive
> too, and the unit has not been back with the problem. First time I ever
saw
> something on a secondary IDE cause problems, much less a failure, of a
> device on the primary IDE channel. The only commonality was the controller
> chip on the motherboard, my end diagnosis was the defective CD drive was
> hurting the controller chip so badly that it affected the HDD too. But I'd
> never seen such a thing before in my decades of service.
>
> > As I said in my overlapping post, both HD were tested and are OK. The
PSU
> > was replaced also.
>
> I wonder how the HDD was tested. A good "thorough" test for bad sectors
> ought to be strenuous enough, as that would get the HDD plenty warm.

As far as I know they were tested by whatever the makers of the HDD supply
for testing? I have now disconnected the HDD on the secondary IDE - that has
taken away the "disc" and "atapi" errors. So now we'll see if it crashes
again.

Getting
> another PSU was a good move, regardless, and certainly rules it out.
> Especially if it was of a higher capacity.
>
> I seriously doubt that an external device failure such as a monitor,
> keyboard, or USB device etc. would cause IDE failures. Do you have another
> computer to try them on?

I tried an ordinary, non-cordless keyboard and mouse on the problem system.
Still caused a crash - an 0x23 error.

I guess anything is possible, but that would be
> really weird because except for USB they all have their own power supplies
> and the chip-level I/O would blow out if there was a sufficient short to
> draw down a new PSU to the point that the unit would reboot, I'd think. If
> USB drew to much power most systems will cause a warning popup notice to
> appear, and that wouldn't be enough to draw down the power supply anyway.
>
> No, this is still seeming to still be a heat related problem (is the CPU
> getting too hot at your location?) or, I'm afraid, it's also starting to
> look like a motherboard (probably a controller) problem. Really past time
to
> back up that HDD before its content gets more damages.

I backed up all important info before taking it in.

>External devices are
> buffered from the computer power supply by way of integrated circuits that
> can not withstand what the PSU is capable of outputting in the way of
> current without blowing up with a bang, so they should not be able to
cause
> a reboot. No, something else seems to be at fault. Did the shop test
things
> streniously with the case "buttoned up" so the temperature gets warmer, or
> with it open so that things inside run cooler? Did they use a heat gun to
> warm chips up (but not excessively) to see if they'd fail? How about usage
> of freeze spray?

This I don't know about. A heat problem was never mentioned. I'm assuming
that they at least checked the CPU fan. System temp seems to be about 63
degrees - it's an AMD XP 2000. Unless it's a build up of dust I can't see
heat being a problem as it's been in the same location for 2 years with no
problem. I'm assuming I would have been told that dust was heavy?

>
> Might try another graphics card, or try a graphics card if using onboard
> graphics chipset. If that turns out to be it, consider getting another
> computer or motherboard if you're currently using onboard graphics chip
> instead of a slotted card. It has been my experience that once something
> goes bad with a motherboard, it doesn't get better and the electrical
> "strain" eventually starts affecting other motherboard chips even if
you're
> not using the functionality of the defective chip (unless the chip is
> replaced, of course).

I'm told that they checked the graphics card and it was fine.

>
> Bad physical memory is possible but I assume the shop ruled that out very
> well, since it's such a common cause of problems.

They ran a test overnight - no problems showed up.

>I also assumed that the
> shop swapped memory stick locations if you have more than just one memory
> stick installed.

I've only one memory stick installed.

>
> I'm not trying to second guess the shop, just to offer up some things that
> from what you've related as symptoms might be of root problem or might
> warrant further testing. But unless you have more info to supply, I'm
about
> out of thoughts on this because I can not physically examine the unit
> myself.. All I know for sure is that you still have problems after a
> service, and you have publicly asked for some thoughts.

Thank you - I'm really glad of the help. Any info I can give you?

>
> That it only has a problem at your location is, as the shop relates,
> suspect. Maybe you have a bad cable, it is possible to have a short of the
> power supply via the cable, since most of them have a pin that outputs at
> least one PSU voltage, directly from the PSU. I doubt that an external
> device itself is bad (a chip would probably blow) but a bad cable is a
real
> possibility. But a bad cable would almost surely not be affected by how
much
> activity your computer CPU is performing, so I doubt it as cause in your
> case and total topic rendition of symptoms.

I did change the power cable but it didn't help. It is also attached to an
extension power lead - I'll try changing that too.

>
> Do check your wall AC power outlet, properly wired and functioning 3-wire
> plugs are required with computer power supplies (and they could be a life
> hazard if they do not test properly). A PSU operated without a good earth
> ground will allow power surges to get into the computer circuitry, and
> eventually something will blow out or become weakened by such surges.
>
> Best wishes.
>
>

Once again thank you for all your suggestions.

Janice