Re: XP Home rebooting randomly

From: Janice (jem16_at_nospammail.com)
Date: 07/10/04 

Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 16:45:12 +0100

Hi,

Thanks for your very detailed reply.

Over the 4/5 weeks that it's been doing this, it has only rebooted once
whilst no-one was at it - however as usual MSN was signed in.

We didn't give the shop anything but the main unit. We're now about to try
an ordinary mouse and keyboard.

I asked about dust - it's been cleaned but they didn't think it was a
problem. I'm also assuming that they checked the seating of components but I
shall have a look.

I had changed the PSU before I took it in - that was my first thought. I
bought a 350w PSU but still the problem remained.

I've been back to the shop and discussed it further. They know me well as
I've been going there for years and we're on first name terms. I've been
told that it has been thoroughly tested. Both hard drives checked and fine,
video card checked and fine, memory test run overnight and no errors. Their
recommendation is that my own hardware of mouse, keyboard or monitor could
be causing it. The LAN card and cable - unlikely as it does transfer data
OK.

This is a mystery but we'll see what the change of keyboard and mouse does.

Janice
"WinGuy" <no_spam@nomail.bot> wrote in message
news:u2SHc.8602$9O4.6836@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com...
> Hi, Janice.
> To me, it does sound like some sort of hardware related problem instead of
a
> operating system software problem. The key to part of the diagnosis is
your
> observation that the rebooting doesn't occur unless the computer is doing
> something more than "just sitting there". This sounds like a sudden power
> off that is being initiated by the power supply electronics or the CPU
> circuitry itself that is instructing the power supply to shut down.
>
> Did you give that shop your wireless keyboard/mouse to use during their
> testing? If not, try experimenting with using cheap "standard"
substitutes;
> individual wired keyboard and mouse (nice to have around anyway, just in
> case of a coffee accident!)
>
> How about internal dust? Does the fan on the power supply appear to have a
> thick coating of dust? If so then so do its internal parts, and perhaps
the
> entire interior of the computer. Dust is a heat insulator, heat will then
> accumulate on individual circuit board components and that is not good at
> all. If dust has accumulated, carefully brush things in the interior of
the
> computer case and vacuum it, and just replace the power supply as a
> precaution. While in there, make sure all plug-in cards are firmly seated
as
> well as any socketed components on the motherboard or on individual
plug-in
> cards (important: remove the wall socket cord before pressing on things
that
> might flex the motherboard and cause it to short to the bare metal case
that
> is behind it!) Dust or smoke residue will also harm floppy disk and CD
> drives, over time, because it accumulates.
>
> More than likely, though, I'd suspect the power supply itself has become
> marginal and perhaps heat sensitive, or its overall power capacity is
> insufficient for the hardware it is asked to support. Most are not that
> difficult to physically replace, and are readily available at big places
> that sell computers. If you replace the PS then go for one with more power
> capacity than the one you now have. Around 350 watts maximum capacity is
> usually sufficient for today's computers.
>
> Some BIOS chips support temperature and some also support fan speed
> reporting; if yours does then boot into BIOS and look for power voltage
> reports that fluctuate out of tolerance (most are only +/- 10% tolerance).
> Try opening and closing CD drive doors while observing the voltage report.
> Fans should only make a sound of moving air, never be squeaky or make
other
> sounds, such sounds are sure indicators of impending failure or failure
that
> occurs as they heat up (bad bearings). Bad fans can draw very excessive
> power supply requirements.
>
> Another but more rare possibility is the white (or sometimes black) thick
> conductive goo that conducts heat away from the CPU to the heat sink that
> the CPU fan is mounted on. After a few years it may dry and become a heat
> insulator instead of a heat conductor! This is a common problem with
> desktops, and even more so with laptops. Then, when the CPU is unusually
> busy the CPU heats up rapidly and excessively and it causes the power
supply
> to shut down as a safety precaution. Removing the old goo and replacing it
> might help (it is not necessary to remove the CPU chip itself, just the
fan
> and heat sink that sits on top of it, to clean off the old goo and replace
> it -- get the "heat sink compound" goo from any good electronics supply
> store, probably even available from a nearby Radio Shack).
>
> Be sure to practice anti-static-electricity precautions when ever you have
> your computer case open. Most everything you could touch in there, except
> for the bare metal of the case itself, can be super easily damaged by
static
> electricity. One zot will, at best, at least weaken a circuit board
> component and shorten its life. Always have the power cord unplugged and
> always touch the bare metal of the case (or wear a wrist strap that is
> connected to the bare metal of the case) before touching anything to
reseat
> it in a socket, you don't want to flex an electrically live motherboard
into
> shorting against the bare metal case it is mounted on. Never touch the
gold
> or silver contacts of something that go into a socket, the oils on your
> fingers can leave an invisible film that could cause electrical insulation
> problems later due to a chemical reaction over time. Do not remove any
> socketed chips, the pins might bend and trying to straighten them often
> causes a pin to break off -- just press on socketed things firmly to
assure
> they are seated well. Heating/expanding and cooling/contraction cycles,
over
> time, cause socket things to "ride up" in their sockets. Ozone,
unavoidably
> produced by the power supply, causes an invisible chemical reaction at the
> contacts level, especially between dissimilar metals, that acts as an
> insulator. Carefully reseating socketed things is a good practice, every
> year or so.
>
> An even more rare possibility is a bad earth ground at the wall AC-power
> socket. You can buy (or order) wall socket AC power wiring testers
(usually
> available from the bigger Radio Shack stores, too). Such testers have the
> potential to save lives. Computers use "switching power supplies" that do
> NOT function well if a bad earth ground exists, and something could
> eventually self destruct because electrical surges do not get properly
> dampened by a switching power supply that has a bad earth ground
reference.
> Also, use a "spike protector" but only at the wall socket, they are
designed
> to permanently short and cause a wall socket panel circuit breaker to trip
> if a large power surge comes along, so putting them on an extension cord
is
> not a good idea as the extension cord could, in a very worst case
scenario,
> provide enough resistive voltage drop to keep the circuit breaker from
> tripping and the extension cord might then greatly overheat and catch on
> fire.
>
> Most all of the above a good computer or general electronics repair shop
can
> do for you, and should do as part of diagnostics when someone complains of
> sudden and unexplained shutdowns with or without a reboot (the reboot part
> of the shutdown is generally a BIOS selectable function after a sudden
power
> off occurs).
>
> Best wishes.
>
> "Janice" <jem16@nospammail.com> wrote in message
> news:ODGY0kmZEHA.2944@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> > My son's PC has started to reboot randomly. I took it into my local PC
> store
> > to have it checked out. They tell me that they have checked out the
> memory,
> > video card, hard drive, virus checking etc but could find nothing. In
the
> > three days they tested it, it did not reboot once! However I would have
to
> > say that it happens when my son is doing something, not just the PC
> sitting
> > there doing nothing.
> >
> > So I take it home, connect it up and it crashes just as MSN is
> automatically
> > signing in. I'm told it must be a piece of hardware that I'm using at
> home.
> > However all it's connected to is a monitor, cordless keyboard & mouse,
and
> a
> > LAN cable.
> >
> > Event viewer shows up these problems - both mentioned to the PC store
but
> > nothing done about them.
> >
> > Event Type: Information
> >
> > Event Source: Save Dump
> >
> > Event Category: None
> >
> > Event ID: 1001
> >
> > Date: 17/06/2004
> >
> > Time: 19:47:29
> >
> > User: N/A
> >
> > Computer: GRAHAM
> >
> > Description:
> >
> > The computer has rebooted from a bugcheck. The bugcheck was:
> > 0x0000007f(0x0000000d, 0x00000000, 0x00000000, 0x00000000). A dump was
> saved
> > in: D:\WINDOWS\Minidump\Mini061704-03.dmp.
> >
> >
> >
> > For more information, see Help and Support Center at
> > http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.
> >
> >
> >
> > Event Type: Error
> >
> > Event Source: atapi
> >
> > Event Category: None
> >
> > Event ID: 5
> >
> > Date: 17/06/2004
> >
> > Time: 19:45:34
> >
> > User: N/A
> >
> > Computer: GRAHAM
> >
> > Description:
> >
> > A parity error was detected on \Device\Ide\IdePort1.
> >
> >
> >
> > For more information, see Help and Support Center at
> > http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.
> >
> > Data:
> >
> > 0000: 0f 06 10 00 01 00 64 00 ......d.
> >
> > 0008: 00 00 00 00 05 00 04 c0 .......
> >
> > 0010: 03 00 00 80 00 00 00 00 ...?....
> >
> > 0018: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........
> >
> > 0020: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........
> >
> > 0028: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........
> >
> > 0030: 00 00 00 00 01 00 00 00 ........
> >
> >
> >
> > Event Type: Error
> >
> > Event Source: Disk
> >
> > Event Category: None
> >
> > Event ID: 11
> >
> > Date: 17/06/2004
> >
> > Time: 21:35:35
> >
> > User: N/A
> >
> > Computer: GRAHAM
> >
> > Description:
> >
> > The driver detected a controller error on \Device\Harddisk1\D.
> >
> >
> >
> > For more information, see Help and Support Center at
> > http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.
> >
> > Data:
> >
> > 0000: 03 00 68 00 01 00 b6 00 ..h....
> >
> > 0008: 00 00 00 00 0b 00 04 c0 .......
> >
> > 0010: 01 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........
> >
> > 0018: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........
> >
> > 0020: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........
> >
> > 0028: a8 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 .......
> >
> > 0030: ff ff ff ff 02 00 00 00 ....
> >
> > 0038: 40 00 00 8f 02 00 00 00 @......
> >
> > 0040: 00 20 0a 12 40 03 20 00 . ..@. .
> >
> > 0048: 00 00 00 00 0a 00 00 00 ........
> >
> > 0050: 00 20 37 82 78 f9 3c 82 . 7,x<,
> >
> > 0058: 00 00 00 00 70 6e 3d 82 ....pn=,
> >
> > 0060: 02 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........
> >
> > 0068: 28 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 (.......
> >
> > 0070: 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........
> >
> > 0078: f0 00 04 00 00 00 00 0b .......
> >
> > 0080: 00 00 00 00 08 03 00 00 ........
> >
> > 0088: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I've also got a similar error on "atapi" for the same IDE port. I've
> changed
> > the IDE cable but that didn't help.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > This is another I also saved before taking the PC in.
> >
> >
> >
> > Event Type: Error
> >
> > Event Source: System Error
> >
> > Event Category: (102)
> >
> > Event ID: 1003
> >
> > Date: 15/06/2004
> >
> > Time: 08:01:18
> >
> > User: N/A
> >
> > Computer: GRAHAM
> >
> > Description:
> >
> > Error code 1000008e, parameter1 c0000005, parameter2 bf877e1b,
> > parameter3f223f818, parameter4 00000000.
> >
> >
> >
> > For more information, see Help and Support Center at
> > http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.
> >
> > Data:
> >
> > 0000: 53 79 73 74 65 6d 20 45 System E
> >
> > 0008: 72 72 6f 72 20 20 45 72 rror Er
> >
> > 0010: 72 6f 72 20 63 6f 64 65 ror code
> >
> > 0018: 20 31 30 30 30 30 30 38 1000008
> >
> > 0020: 65 20 20 50 61 72 61 6d e Param
> >
> > 0028: 65 74 65 72 73 20 63 30 eters c0
> >
> > 0030: 30 30 30 30 30 35 2c 20 000005,
> >
> > 0038: 62 66 38 37 37 65 31 62 bf877e1b
> >
> > 0040: 2c 20 66 32 32 33 66 38 , f223f8
> >
> > 0048: 31 38 2c 20 30 30 30 30 18, 0000
> >
> > 0050: 30 30 30 30 0000
> >
> >
> >
> > Is it hardware related or software?
> >
> >
> >
> > Janice
> >
> >
> >
>
>

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