Re: 2 PCs not starting up properly nor shutting down

Hi all.

My apologies for the late reply; I have the most "fantastic" work hours...
But today I had some time off.

I managed to test the drives of the first computer that failed, today; and
they all seem to work fine. I connected those to my own PC, one by one, did
some testing (with HD tune, to give them a good workout, and played a DVD in
the optical drive). No problems at all. (I just realized I forgot to test the
disk drive...)

Other hardware in the PC that failed first were an AGP card, and a wireless
network card. The wireless card was installed in the backup PC a few days
ago, and works great. The AGP card, unfortunately, I can't test. The backup
PC has no AGP slot, and my own PC has a PCIe slot...

I have not managed to do anything on the backup PC; my wife needed it for
her online classes today.

OK, I did the voltage test as described in your article, on the first PC.

I disconnected the ATX connector from the MB for the first part of the test;
because the CPU heatsink obscures part of it, and is hard to reach with the
probes.

The purple wire measures 5.20 V. After hooking up the ATX connector to the
MB the voltage goes down to about 5.10 V.

The green wire measures 4.66 V. (again, before being plugged into the MB).
After I plug it in to the MB, and turning on the PSU's switch, it goes to
0.78 V.

The gray wire measures 5.15 V. ("well above 2.4 V", as you say in your other
message, but maybe too high?)

I measured 3.43 V, 5.15 V and 12.10 V on the orange, red and yellow wires,
respectively.

I hope you can tell me a little more from these voltages. Please remember
that I couldn't perform the test exactly as you describe; because pressing
the power button on this PC doesn't do anything at all.

If it is significant: I noticed that the power supply's fan does not come on
when the ATX connector is not hooked up to the MB (even though the PSU is
switched on in the back).

Does this mean anything to you?

Thanks,

Erik

"w_tom" wrote:

After all that work, now tell us; what is 'known good' and what is
'known bad'? Nothing? After all that work, nothing has been
accomplished? The problem has been made exponentially worse due to
shotgunning. Trying to fix Windows when hardware integrity is unknown
and when Windows is not yet on the suspect list will only create more
unknowns; therefore exponentially complicate things. Fixing Windows
also destroyed useful facts.

Step back. Start all over again because everything is in the third
category - unknown. Move each 'component' from the unknown category
to 'definitively good' or 'definitively bad'. The world is ternary.

Everything will look bad if a power supply is failing. Fans can
spin; lights illuminate; and still a power supply can be 100%
defective. A defective supply that works in one computer can appear
fail in another. No way around using a 3.5 digit multimeter as sold
in any 'guys' store from K-mart to Lowes for maybe $20. Perform a two
minute procedure described in "When your computer dies without
warning....." starting 6 Feb 2007 in the newsgroup alt.windows-xp
at:
http://tinyurl.com/yvf9vh

With numbers both before power switch is pressed and as power switch
is pressed, then a power supply 'system' is 'definitively good' or
'definitively bad'. Post those numbers here for further insights. It
is a supply 'system' - far more than just one 'system' component - a
power supply. Just another reason why shotgunning can so complicate a
problem.

Having established the state of that 'system', never look back.
Something has been accomplished. We know that something in that
computer is 100% functional or defective. Move on.

Long ago, important facts were being stored in the system (event)
log. Windows finds problems, records them, and works around them.
This information so that you can deal with problems when you are
ready. Well, useful facts were destroyed by 'fixing' Windows without
first learning what was wrong. So move on.

All responsible computer manufactures provide comprehensive hardware
diagnostic in one complete package. Software that tests hardware
without Windows complications. Strip the problem down into parts;
then analyze only those parts. Utilities examine well beyond what
Windows can see and report back with numbers. If your computer
manufacture was not so responsible, then download each diagnostic from
the appropriate hardware provider. If the computer manufacture did
not provide that one complete hardware diagnostic, then download one
from the disk drive manufacturer, from the video controller
manufacturer, sound card providers, some memory diagnostic (maybe from
a third party such as MemTst86), etc. Establish what is and is not
good long before disconnecting or replacing anything. Don't shotgun.
First identify the suspect.

At this point, something may appear defective. If still confused,
well the better informed can only reply if you provide facts.
Diagnostics and voltages are facts and numbers then empower the more
technical informed posters. By verifying all hardware and confirming
power supply voltages, now much has been accomplished. We know what
is good; so move on to other suspects. All hardware worked just fine
without Windows. Only now suspect Windows since it is the last
'unknown'. And still we don't repair anything yet. Instead identify
the suspect.

Only replace a 'definitively bad' item. A list of what is
'definitively good' means something has been accomplished. That's the
point. After all that shotgunning, nothing has been accomplished and
the problem has been made more complex.

You have no reason to believe a power surge existed or did damage.
If suppressors were adjacent to the computer, then a surge can even be
provided more destructive paths to earth via electronics. High
reliability facilities don't use plug-in suppressors for this and
other reasons. The effective suppressor is located far from
electronics and typically 'less than 10 feet' from earth ground.
Surges that can overwhelm protection already inside all electronics
occur typically once every seven years - a number that can vary
significantly. Others without that knowledge and numbers that
automatically assume only what they understand as the reason for
failure. Manufacturing defects are a far more common source of
failures such as yours.

Currently, we have near zero facts to answer why PCs are failing.
Too much shotgunning has exponentially complicated the problem -
severely clouded the water. Shotgunning can even cause damage to a
good computer - just another reason we avoid shotgunning. To obtain a
useful reply, your replies will only be as good as the information you
provide. That means 'definitive' answers, numbers, and working step
by step to establish subsystem and component integrity. Using
information provided, every answer would only be wild speculation -
"it could be this or could be that". Get numbers. Get
diagnostics. Know "this is good, that is bad, and those are still
unknown". It is a ternary world.

On Nov 15, 12:12 am, Erik <E...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I agree, there may have been a power surge. Despite the surge suppressors -
including the one in the UPS... Wouldn't surprise me, in this black hole of
the country.

Taking it to the "local" store is not an option, I'm afraid. There's just no
such thing...

And so that takes me back to my original question: has anyone ever seen
something like this before, multiple PCs failing with the same symptoms? And,
what turned out to be defective?

.

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