Re: ***** sp2 bREAKS eVERYTHING!!!!! *****
From: Nathan McNulty (nospam_at_msn.com)
Date: 09/12/04
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Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 00:55:25 -0700
cquirke (MVP Win9x) wrote:
> On Mon, 06 Sep 2004 00:08:40 -0700, Nathan McNulty <nospam@msn.com>
>
>
>> You wrote: "OTOH, there are lots of posters who base thier advice on a
>>narrow range of experience; either "works fine on the 12 PCs I installed
>>it on" or "I installed it on mine, and it was a disaster!". How narrow
>>are the thousands of people that were part of the technical beta?
>
>
> Not narrow at all, yet seemingly not wide enough to have nipped the
> Prescott issue in the bud. IOW; wide, but not all-encompassing.
>
> Not every beta tester will be conversant with the full range of issues
> turned up during beta testing, so there's still plenty of scope for
> "works for me, what's wrong with you?" blind spots!
I agree. It is always going to be difficult to find problems that will
occur once a product is released. I do feel this Prescott issue should
have been seen before SP2 was released though. That is way too big to miss.
>
>
>>They changed the code from previous builds that affected the use
>>of Windows on the Prescott.
>
>
> OK, that fits. I'm not in the beta, so I can talk freely on what I
> found from my own testing, but there are still some things I heard
> from NDA sources that I can't detail.
>
>
>>Either way, it is important to maintain a healthy computer.
>
>
> Yes, but "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" applies.
>
> We both know disasterous a bad BIOS update can be, so there is no way
> on earth I would automatically update BIOS before applying an SP. If
> not onlt for fear of a bad update, then also because making two big
> changes at once (BIOS update, SP) is a bad idea for tshooting.
>
> In fact, I've never had to update a BIOS on any PC Ive built or worked
> on, until this Prescott vs. SP2 issue. I've never had to care about
> CPU microcode revision levels, until this issue.
>
> The issue's caught both Intel and MS in the spotlight.
>
> Intel, because they appear to be shipping significant bugs and relying
> on BIOS vendors to fix these on their behalf - and they do not appear
> to document these issues, hoping we won't need to know.
>
> MS, because SP2 clearly goes as deep into raw hardware as installing a
> new OS, which means that application-level testing is not enough basis
> to trust and roll out SP2. Never before have I had an OS that breaks
> because of fine details about what CPU is involved.
>
> And yes, the process (rigorous as it is) had failed if the result is
> automatic push of material that can render a PC unbootable. That's
> close to a worst-case outcome for malware infection!
>
> The message I'd take home here is; humility, dudes! Thorough testing
> cannot completely exclude all problems, and crow may always have to be
> eaten if hubric assurances are made.
One thing that is nice is most modern computers have either a backup for
the BIOS or a tool that makes it almost impossible to screw up the
flashing. Generally speaking, I usually check for BIOS updates and see
what was fixed. If it is anything I feel might pertain to me now or in
the future, I will update the BIOS. It is way too simple and idiot
proof because of the way ASUS makes their motherboards. Other makers
have followed suit, but older computers are still risky to update.
What happens isn't so much that Intel has problems with their CPU's and
the BIOS fixes those problems or that Windows is dependent on the type
of CPU. It is more that Windows is being designed to take advantage of
new features of CPU's such as we saw with NX. When you start adding new
capabilities for new CPU's to an OS, this is where you begin to run into
problems.
I can't believe that MS released SP2 through Automatic Updates even
after knowing about the Prescott issue. That seems like the worst thing
they could have ever done. I pity those who purchased a Dell or
something before the microcode was updated and now have a useless system
and don't know enough to fix it.
>
>
>
>>--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - -
>
> Never turn your back on an installer program
>
>>--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - -
---- Nathan McNulty
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