Re: Hot Swapping a SATA drive in Windows 2000 and XP.

From: Nathan McNulty (nospam_at_msn.com)
Date: 09/03/04 

Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2004 01:17:35 -0700

Things showing up as SCSI is just odd. I have nothing like this on my
system. I would go into Device Manager (Start-Run-devmgmt.msc) and
remove these devices. Install the latest chipset drivers and reboot.
If after installing the latest chipset drivers and a clean configuration
of the drives it doesn't work, I would try a fresh install of XP as a
last resort if possible. 

----
Nathan McNulty
Chris S wrote:
> Well, I'm stumped.  I just took an old 10 gig maxtor drive (ata) and
> put it in my SATA enclosure (which does pata/sata conversion).  The
> drive shows up no problem.  I formatted it as FAT32, but still, the
> two 'optimize' options on the 'policies' button are grayed out. 
> 
> This is somewhat consistent with my other tests, which have included
> 'native' SATA drives (though I can't afford to re-format the 'real'
> sata drive at the moment). 
> 
> I even took my USB memory stick, and was able to format it as NTFS,
> and it still had the two 'optimize' options available on the
> 'policies' tab, so NTFS/FAT don't appear to be the deciding factor
> here.  
> 
> The essence of the problem seems to be that my two SATA cards (one
> Adaptec/Silicon Image card, one Maxtor/Promise card) present
> themselves as SCSI adapters, and thus, disks connected to them are
> treated as SCSI disks.  
> 
> Do your SATA adapters and associated drives show up as SCSI devices? 
> 
> The only other variables I can think of are the specific settings in
> the 'disk management' applet; I could make it 'basic' or 'dynamic'
> (I've chosen both at various times, seems to make no difference),
> primary or extended (think I've tried both); 
> 
> I just spent $150 on a bunch of 6 foot external SATA cables, and
> internal sata connector posts (to provide 'female' sata connectors on
> back of computer) so I'd like to proceed with this, but at this point
> I'm running out of ideas!   
> 
> Thanks! 
> 
> On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 00:06:05 -0700, Nathan McNulty <nospam@msn.com>
> wrote:
> 
> 
>>I will try to help as best as I can.  I believe you need to have the 
>>drive formatted as FAT32 to use Optimize for Quick Removal.  This is 
>>simply what I choose to use for my SATA drive.  I would update the 
>>chipset drivers, format the drive again, and then set the options right 
>>there.  XP will not format FAT32 larger than 32GB unless you use 
>>something different to format it.  I simply connected the drive 
>>internally and used a Windows 98 Bootdisk.  Your method may vary ;)
>>
>>----
>>Nathan McNulty
>>
>>
>>Chris S wrote:
>>
>>>And still more info ... I just plugged my SATA drive into my XP Pro
>>>office computer (my home computer mentioned below is Windows 2000),
>>>which has a Maxtor SATA/150 PCI Card (which is a promise device under
>>>the covers).  Going to the properties of the drive in this
>>>configuration, I do see a 'policies' tab, but when I select it, the
>>>two 'optimize...' options are grayed out, and the 'Optimize for
>>>performance' is the option selected.  So I can't change it to 'optimze
>>>for quick removal' .... 
>>>
>>>Stranger and stranger ... ;)
>>>
>>>
>>>On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 21:44:24 GMT, Chris S <cschofie@nospam.home.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Well, the plot thickens, as they say ... on my home system, when I
>>>>plug in my SATA drive, and go to it's properties (the same place where
>>>>I saw 'policies' on the USB drive below), I only see 'Disk Properties'
>>>>and 'SCSI Properties'.  On the 'Disk Properties' tab, there is one
>>>>option - Write Cache enabled; it's grayed out and unchecked.  On the
>>>>'SCSI Properties', there are two options: 'Disable tagged queueing'
>>>>and 'Disable synchronous transfers'.  Both are available (i.e., not
>>>>grayed out), and bot are not checked.  
>>>>
>>>>So the bottom line is, I don't have the 'policies' tab in the first
>>>>place, which is where you are going to set the various optimization
>>>>choices.  How come my SATA drives are being treated as 'SCSI', while
>>>>yours are not?  Is that the root cause here? 
>>>>
>>>>My controller is an Adaptec 'SATA Connect' card, which shows up, under
>>>>device manager, as a SCSI device 'Adaptec Serial ATA 1205SA Host
>>>>Controller', and it's control panel applet says it's a Sil 3112 Rev 2
>>>>device.  
>>>>
>>>>Thanks! 
>>>>
>>>>On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 09:31:29 -0700, Chris S <myname@see.signature.com>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Thanks Nathan.  Is the setting of FAT32 a pre-condition to getting the
>>>>>'Optimize for Quick Removal', or am I formatting as FAT32 for another
>>>>>reason?  I don't believe I have any compelling reason to go with NTFS
>>>>>with these particular drives so if that's the trick, I'll certainly go
>>>>>with it.  
>>>>>
>>>>>I just popped in a USB memory stick, and went to the 'policies' tab,
>>>>>and the two choices/explanations are as follows: 
>>>>>1) "Optimize for Quick Removal - This setting disables write caching
>>>>>on the disk and in Windows, so you can disconnect this device without
>>>>>using the Safe Removal icon"
>>>>>2) "Optimize for performance - This setting enables write caching in
>>>>>Windows to improve disk performance. To disconnect this device from
>>>>>the computer, click the 'Safely Remove Hardware' icon in the taskbar
>>>>>notification area". 
>>>>>
>>>>>So ... this suggests it's perfectly OK to go with either option, it's
>>>>>just that, if you choose 'performance', you need to 'safely remove'
>>>>>the device first.  Is the very appearance of that 'safely remove
>>>>>hardware' icon in the taskbar restricted to FAT32 devices?  
>>>>>
>>>>>I'll go home and play with this for a while and report back ...
>>>>>thanks!  
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 00:01:30 -0700, Nathan McNulty <nospam@msn.com>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>You have a couple of options.  First would be to format the drive as 
>>>>>>FAT32, which you may or may not want to do.  Second, you will need to 
>>>>>>change the way the device is set up.  Connect the device, open Device 
>>>>>>Manager, double click on the hard drive in question, click the Policies 
>>>>>>Tab, then set it to Optimize for Quick Removal.  I use FAT32 on my 
>>>>>>removeable SATA drives and set them to Optimize for Quick Removal, but 
>>>>>>you may be able to do it differently.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>----
>>>>>>Nathan McNulty
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Chris S wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>SATA drives are theoretically hot swappable; the power and data
>>>>>>>connectors are designed for 'hot' removal, with ground wires
>>>>>>>connecting first, and the interface is designed to deal with the
>>>>>>>various surge issues - this is well known.  
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I've used several USB 2.0 external drives, and before you remove them,
>>>>>>>you are supposed to 'stop' them; presumably to flush any delayed
>>>>>>>writes that may be in progress, etc. 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>But when I plug in a SATA drive, it does not show up as a device to be
>>>>>>>'safely removed' in the 'Safely Remove Hardware' applet that shows up
>>>>>>>if I plug in a USB device.  
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I've done some tests; when I plug in a SATA drive (a data drive,
>>>>>>>obviously, not a boot drive), a new hard drive shows up, no problem.
>>>>>>>I can read and write to this drive, no problem.  And if I unplug it,
>>>>>>>or power it down, the drive letter simply disappears - no error
>>>>>>>messages or warnings whatsoever.  All sounds good.  
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>HOWEVER, I could not find a file that I had written to the drive.
>>>>>>>This has all the markings of a write-cached file not being written to
>>>>>>>the device.  So it occurred to me that, somehow, I should be able to
>>>>>>>'stop', or 'dismount', or otherwise 'software disconnect' this drive
>>>>>>>before I actually remove it.  But the only relevant option I can find
>>>>>>>for the device is to disable write caching - is that what I should be
>>>>>>>doing?  I'd rather not do that as it will generally slow down
>>>>>>>performance, but if it is the only way to guarantee data integrity,
>>>>>>>that's what I'll do.  
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I've seen posts from others that indicate this is a regular practice,
>>>>>>>so I just wondered, how do I guarantee my files have been 'flushed'
>>>>>>>before removing the drive?  
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Thanks! 
>>>>>>>For email, send to chris at panties domain dot com, Remove panties and replace domain with attbi. 
>>>>>
>>>>>For email, send to chris at panties domain dot com, Remove panties and replace domain with attbi. 
>>>>
>>>>===========
>>>>Remove 'nospam' from email to reply - Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>>For email, send to chris at panties domain dot com, Remove panties and replace domain with attbi. 
> 
> 
> For email, send to chris at panties domain dot com, Remove panties and replace domain with attbi.