Re: Bootable USB HDD
From: Nathan McNulty (nospam_at_msn.com)
Date: 07/31/04
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- In reply to: Edward W. Thompson: "Re: Bootable USB HDD"
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Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 00:06:29 -0700
I would like to hear you explain how I "implied you made it all up." I
did nothing but confirm exactly what you said. I only added that a BIOS
with the ability to boot from USB is required. I have tried to offer a
couple of examples that I use that can boot from USB (both chipsets and
my USB Flash Drive works).
Also, notice I never said anything about fdisk. The reason is because I
don't ever use fdisk as I feel it is outdated. I think it was great you
included that part and I never intended to attack that.
I can see you are simply going to see me as flaming you no matter what I
say, so just know that I never said anything that was meant to offend
you, but merely offer more information (as well as confirmation).
---- Nathan McNulty Edward W. Thompson wrote: > You've certainly confused me now. What do you mean re your work around? > Load USB drivers from a floppy to a Hard drive, then boot the system from an > external USB Drive, unless I am missing something pretty fundemental here I > don't think so. The machine will not recognise the USB drivers you load > until the machine is booted up using the OS on the hard drive . This is not > the same as booting directly from a USB HDD when the machine reads the OS > from the USB HDD. Surely one of the most significant reasons to boot from a > USB HDD is to give an alternative means to start a machine in the event of a > failure of the fixed HDD system. > > With regards to the rest of your post, I think I am justified to say I was > offended. I posted in good faith to give information to those who may be > trying to boot from an external USB drive. I had some problems that I > worked through and thought my experience may save others the same trouble I > had. Your post did nothing but implied I have mad it all up and that you > cannot boot directly from and external USB HDD. As far as I know, from my > searches of Google, there is not similar info available re problems of using > fdisk and recreating the mbr. > > I really wonder what you do when you really set out to offend :-). > > > > "Nathan McNulty" <nospam@msn.com> wrote in message > news:uMhvqdmdEHA.4048@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl... > >>LOL, I never attacked the OP, nor did I mean to offend anyone. I was >>just adding a little side note. Yes, booting off USB devices is simple >>if your BIOS supports it. I don't even need a floppy drive since my >>computer can boot off my USB Flash Drive. You simply have to have a >>BIOS that supports this and set it up correctly. And just to note, >>there are almost always workarounds. If you needed to boot off a USB >>Harddrive and your BIOS does not support it, you use a floppy to load >>the proper drivers and boot off that harddrive (which could all be >>automated). >> >>Again, to the OP, it was not my intention to offend you, but to expound >>a little bit and offer examples. >> >>---- >>Nathan McNulty >> >> >>Wislu Plethora wrote: >> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>"Edward W. Thompson" <thomeduk1@btopenworld.com> wrote in >>> >>>message >>> >>> >>>>news:ulNdXFjdEHA.1644@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl... >>>> >>>> >>>>>Firstly, if you read the post I think I made it clear >>> >>>that my new >>> >>> >>>>>motherboard does support booting from a USB HDD. >>>>> >>>>>Secondly, the point of the post was to advise others, >>> >>>who like me, may >>> >>> >>>>not >>>> >>>> >>>>>know, that fdisk has limitations and the apparent need, >>> >>>at least in my >>> >>> >>>>case, >>>> >>>> >>>>>to recreate the mbr if the drive had been previously >>> >>>partitioned. >>> >>> >>>>>While I may be wrong, I don't think there is any 'work >>> >>>around' if the >>> >>> >>>>BIOS >>>> >>>> >>>>>does not support booting from the HDD. >>>>> >>>>>My post has nothing to do with a 'work around'. >>>>> >>>>>Don't you take the time to read what is written, >>> >>>however imperfectly, >>> >>> >>>>>before you jump in? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>"Nathan McNulty" <nospam@msn.com> wrote in message >>>>>news:eOamKtgdEHA.1692@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Just a note. You MUST have a BIOS that supports >>> >>>External USB Storage >>> >>> >>>>>>Devices. If you have an Intel i865 or i875 Chipset, >>> >>>you can boot from >>> >>> >>>>>>external USB Storage devices without any extra >>> >>>effort. Most of this is >>> >>> >>>>>>trying to figure out a way to workaround the BIOS if >>> >>>your motherboard >>> >>> >>>>>>doesn't support this. >>>>>> >>>>>>---- >>>>>>Nathan McNulty >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Edward W. Thompson wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>I am posting my experience in making an external >>> >>>USB HDD bootable as >>> >>> >>>>an >>>> >>>> >>>>>aide >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>to others who may be having the same problem. My OS >>> >>>is WINXP Pro >>> >>> >>>>>formatted >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>NTFS and the external drive is formatted FAT32. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I have an external usb/firewire enclosure in which >>> >>>is housed an IBM >>> >>> >>>>DJSA >>>> >>>> >>>>>230 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>2.5" HDD. I have been using this setup for about a >>> >>>year to store >>> >>> >>>>>backups >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>and the like. I used the system on both my desktop >>> >>>(USB 2.0) and >>> >>> >>>>laptop >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>(firewire). >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I upgraded my desktop to a system that has a >>> >>>motherboard that allows >>> >>> >>>>>booting >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>from a USB HDD. I then tried to make my external >>> >>>enclosure bootable >>> >>> >>>>and >>>> >>>> >>>>>ran >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>into complications. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Initially I simply transferred (sys) DOS ver 7.0 OS >>> >>>onto the external >>> >>> >>>>>HDD >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>(FAT32), made the drive active in WINXP, changed >>> >>>the boot order in the >>> >>> >>>>>>>desktop BIOS and tried to boot. The boot process >>> >>>hung, although the >>> >>> >>>>>>>external drive was recognised. I then booted to >>> >>>DOS via a floppy and >>> >>> >>>>>>>repartioned the drive using fdisk, making a single >>> >>>primary partition. >>> >>> >>>>>fdisk >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>identified the external drive as Drive 3, I have >>> >>>two SATA drives on my >>> >>> >>>>>>>desktop. I formatted the partition and reloaded >>> >>>the OS (Sys c:) from >>> >>> >>>>my >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>bootable floppy. So far so good. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I then tried to make the drive active, using fdisk >>> >>>and found that I >>> >>> >>>>>couldn't >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>as fdisk will only allow the first drive to be made >>> >>>active and the >>> >>> >>>>>external >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>drive is recognised as Drive 3. So back to WINXP >>> >>>to make the drive >>> >>> >>>>>active >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>there (Control Panel->Admin Tools->Computer >>> >>>Management). I changed >>> >>> >>>>the >>>> >>>> >>>>>boot >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>order back to USB-HDD first and tried to reboot. >>> >>>The system again >>> >>> >>>>hung >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>during the bootup as before. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>For whatever reason I concluded the problem may be >>> >>>a MBR problem so I >>> >>> >>>>>tried >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>to recreate the MBR using fdisk /mbr. Fortunately >>> >>>before I tried that >>> >>> >>>>I >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>read that fdisk /mbr will only rewrite the mbr on >>> >>>the first drive in >>> >>> >>>>the >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>system. To rewrite the mbr for another drive (in >>> >>>my case drive 3) I >>> >>> >>>>>either >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>had to disconnect my two SATA fixed drives (which >>> >>>would make the >>> >>> >>>>>external >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>drive, drive 1) or find an alternative to fdisk. >>> >>>By searching Google >>> >>> >>>>I >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>found the symantec gdisk.exe, bundled with Ghost, >>> >>>will allow rewriting >>> >>> >>>>>mbr >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>on disks other that the first. gdisk used to be >>> >>>available as freeware >>> >>> >>>>>but >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>not anymore. Fortunately I was able to download an >>> >>>old copy of the >>> >>> >>>>>gdisk >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>freeware version from a site by searching using >>> >>>Google. I recreated >>> >>> >>>>mbr >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>(gdisk 3 /mbr) and the machine now boots from the >>> >>>external drive >>> >>> >>>>without >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>problems. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I believe my experience only relates to previously >>> >>>used HDD. If a new >>> >>> >>>>>drive >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>is partitioned using fdisk anew mbr is created >>> >>>however when an old >>> >>> >>>>drive >>>> >>>> >>>>>is >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>repartitioned fdisk does not recreate the mbr. Why >>> >>>the mbr was the >>> >>> >>>>>source >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>of ther proble, I have no idea. I don't have that >>> >>>level of knowledge, >>> >>> >>>>>but >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>my experience suggests that if anyone is trying to >>> >>>make a previously >>> >>> >>>>>used >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>HDD bootable via an external enclosure, re creating >>> >>>the drive mbr will >>> >>> >>>>>be >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>required. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Before I embarked on this 'enterprise' I did look >>> >>>up as many >>> >>> >>>>references >>>> >>>> >>>>>as I >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>could find on what was entailed to make an external >>> >>>usb drive bootable >>> >>> >>>>>and >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>all my references suggested using fdisk, which for >>> >>>me gave problems, >>> >>> >>>>and >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>none indicated that recreating the mbr will/may be >>> >>>required. >>> >>> >>>>>>>Hope this may be of assistance to others. >>>> >>>>Ed: >>>>Based on my own experience, to the best of my knowledge >>> >>>you cannot boot from >>> >>> >>>>a USB external hard drive. Hardly a week passes where I >>> >>>don't come across >>> >>> >>>>postings in various newsgroups as well as information on >>> >>>various web sites >>> >>> >>>>that state that "you can boot from a USB external hard >>> >>>drive as long as your >>> >>> >>>>motherboard's BIOS supports this capability", or words to >>> >>>that effect. I've >>> >>> >>>>worked with a variety of modern motherboards, many of >>> >>>which contain a BIOS >>> >>> >>>>element indicating a USB boot capability, but I've yet to >>> >>>boot to a USB >>> >>> >>>>external hard drive containing a cloned XP operating >>> >>>system. And I have yet >>> >>> >>>>to come across a *documented* source indicating this >>> >>>capability is actually >>> >>> >>>>achievable. >>>> >>>>The following is from Western FAQs: >>>>Question: Can I boot my computer using an external >>> >>>(FireWire, USB, Combo) >>> >>> >>>>hard drive? >>>> >>>>Answer: Western Digital does not provide technical >>> >>>support for booting your >>> >>> >>>>computer using an external hard drive. BIOS manufacturers >>> >>>who design PC >>> >>> >>>>system BIOS chips have informed Western Digital that it >>> >>>is not currently >>> >>> >>>>possible to boot your computer with an external hard >>> >>>drive. >>> >>> >>>>I also queried Symantec Technical Support on this issue >>> >>>and here's their >>> >>> >>>>response: >>>>"Thank you for contacting Symantec Online Technical >>> >>>Support. >>> >>> >>>>You wanted to know if you could boot from a external USB >>> >>>drive that you have >>> >>> >>>>cloned to using Norton Ghost. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>The issue at hand would be whether the drive would be >>> >>>recognized in the boot >>> >>> >>>>sequence of your system. To the best of my knowledge, >>> >>>there is no >>> >>> >>>>motherboard that supports booting from external devices >>> >>>currently. This >>> >>> >>>>really has nothing to do with Norton Ghost." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>In addition, I raised the question with two local >>> >>>computer technicians in >>> >>> >>>>our area; both of whom stated that USB external drives >>> >>>are not bootable. >>> >>> >>>> >>>>Using Symantec's Ghost 2003, I routinely clone my >>> >>>internal hard drives to >>> >>> >>>>USB external hard drives. I can, when the need arises, >>> >>>clone the external >>> >>> >>>>drive back to the fixed internal one and under those >>> >>>circumstances the >>> >>> >>>>internal drive will be bootable. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>If anyone has personally booted from a USB external hard >>> >>>drive or witnessed >>> >>> >>>>such, I would certainly be grateful to hear about it. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Art >>>> >>> >>> >>>The OP stated quite succinctly, "The machine now boots from >>>the external drive without problems." Do you think he's >>>lying? >>> > > >
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