Re: Pentium vs Celeron

From: cquirke (MVP Win9x) (cquirkenews_at_nospam.mvps.org)
Date: 03/26/04 

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 17:36:22 +0200

On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:42:18 -0800, "Michael Solomon \(MS-MVP Windows

>can purchase a Pentium 4 system for between $100 and $200 more than a
>comparably equipped Celeron based system. At such a low differential, it
>simply doesn't make sense to get Celeron based system:

Nah, I'd rather exercise more control over the whole spec. If
$100-$200 is worth spending on "Pentium Tax", then how much more
worthwhile is a third of that to treble the HD capacity?

Celeron and Pentium 4 are based on the same core, and in fact there's
often more difference between one pentium X sub-generation than the
next than there is between Celeron and Pentium X. In fact, in some
cases, the newer Celeron outperform older Pentium X within the same
broad category. Here's what I mean...

Pentium II/III generation:

512k half-speed Level 2 cache, 66MHz base
Zero Level 2 cache, 66MHz base
128k Level 2 cache, 66MHz base
256k Level 2 cache, 66MHz base
256k Level 2 cache, 100MHz base
512k Level 2 cache, 100MHz base
512k Level 2 cache, 133MHz base

The first, fourth and last two of the above were branded "Pentium";
the rest, "Celeron". In fact, both Pentium and Celeron names were
attached to the 256k L2, 100MHz cores.

P4 generation

256k L2, 400MHz base
128k L2, 400MHz base
512k L2, 400MHz base
512k L2, 533MHz base
512k L2, 800MHz base, HT

Much beating of the drum between Celeron (the second in the above
list) and the original P4 (first in the list). Muted murmers when P4
went 512k, 533MHz etc. while the "old" P4 were still for sale,
enjoying the marketability of the "Pentium" name (and costing extra
for "Pentium tax"). Same in the PIII era; beating of the drum when
Celeron lacked SIMD and PIII had; not a murmer when SIMD was added to
Celeron later. Ppl still think Celeron suck from "zero L2 cache" days

So steering posters to www.intel.com for straight answers is like
lambs to the slaughter! They cost about the same to make, so the
"Pentium tax" is windfall for Intel. What do you expect them to say?

My policy; consider Pentium 4 only after you've maxed out everywhere
else on the system - decent non-Micro-ATX motherboard, good SVGS if
games is your thing, a large and fast HD, and lots of RAM (or at least
the option to add later). In practice, I use Pentium 4 only for video
editing or audio recording systems that are based on i875P
motherboards, have 2 x 512M DDR400 for that dual-channel 800MHz base
speed, and typically 3 x 120G S-ATA HDs (1 for system, the other two
as a 240G RAID 0 workspace).

If you just "buy a Pentium 4" you will end up with Micro-ATX trash
that will stunt the chip's ability to deliver. Puny HD, built-in SVGA
with no AGP slot, 533MHz base speed - that's the sort of
bottom-scraper junk that some builders drop Pentium 4 into, knowing
that the gormless will only ask about processor.

On the advantages:
  - HyperThreading (new P4 only) helps background tasks
  - most RAM access caught in Level 1 cache
  - most of the rest in Level 2 cache
  - law of diminishing returns when boosting L2 cache size
  - only the few remaining RAM accesses go to RAM

So in effect, going 800MHz instead of 400MHz doubles the remaining 5%
or so of your memory accesses that the L1 and L2 caches missed, 128k
L2 cache does most of the work that 256k L2 does, and 512k a bit more
after that. Pentium 4's nice-to-have, yes, but the same money can
bring in larger benefits when spent elsewhere in spec-boosting a
price-hero system. Start with the HD, make sure mobo doesn't suck.

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Relevant Pages

  • Re: Pentium vs Celeron
    ... | "Pentium tax" is windfall for Intel. ... |>comparably equipped Celeron based system. ... | Zero Level 2 cache, ... | games is your thing, a large and fast HD, and lots of RAM ...
    (microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware)
  • Re: Pentium vs Celeron
    ... >half the cache. ... Celeron processor than the usual shoe-scrapings plus "Pentium Tax". ... 128k full-speed L2 cache, 400MHz base, SIMD ...
    (microsoft.public.windowsxp.general)
  • Re: Pentium vs Celeron
    ... Pentium they can low ball the Celeron. ... Ppl still think Celeron suck from "zero L2 cache" days ...
    (microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware)
  • Re: Pentium vs Celeron
    ... a Celeron would work just ... cache and RAM, but graphics could still be on-board. ... bucks for fast CPU and graphics. ... "Pentium Tax". ...
    (microsoft.public.windowsxp.general)
  • Re: KVM w / two Dell DIM 2400s. Again?
    ... Doens't have to change anything else, including your modem and your KVM. ... Before KVM, when I turned on my Surge protector or the UPS, the ... Pentium booted automatically, whereas the Celeron had to be booted ...
    (alt.sys.pc-clone.dell)