Re: Managing pagefile and hiberfil.sys and disk resize

Tech-Archive recommends: Repair Windows Errors & Optimize Windows Performance

"Robert Carnegie" <rja.carnegie@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:bf899105-921e-4017-a3fc-d2d9728e5a25@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On Sep 4, 1:39 am, "Twayne" <nob...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
"C.Joseph Drayton" <c.jos...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

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On 9/2/2009 8:23 PM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
I got myself a Gigabyte M912 little-notebook touchscreen PC, with
Windows XP Home, which is probably enough for now. I'm looking
mainly for credible pagefile advice: so hit me, folks ;-)

Just for grins I took a look at that; not bad. Kind of a neat little
thing, eh?


Quite a big hard disk for the category. 1 GBytes RAM, replaceable
with a 2 GBytes module instead: not so good.

What does "not so good" mean?

Well, it could have been more. The PC only has one memory slot, and
if I put in 2 GBytes then I have a 1 GByte memory unused and probably
no warranty - it isn't a part for a customer to install.

I see.


Now, as to pagefile (swap file):

I plan to back up the machine (have done so once) by booting with
Linux "Live CD" in external drive such as Knoppix 6.0.1 and copying
drive C into compressed files on D, then backing those up elsewhere
(DVD). With "experimental" NTFS support, only actual file space on
C is backed up. But I suspect this includes pagefile.sys. So part
1: I want at most a small pagefile on C, and more elsewhere, unless
there's a strong counter-argument.

With only one disk drive, there is zero advantage to having the pf
(pagefile) located on another drive letter. It's only helpful when
the pf can reside on a separate, different physical hard drive.
Using a different partition on the same hard drive will give you no
benefit and depending on where it gets created physically in the
platter/track system, could even result in the opposite condition;
slowing things down.
Since this is a single-disk only machine, forget about moving or
splitting the pf; it will be of no benefit.

It's for convenience of backup. If I am supposed to have a large
pagefile, I don't want to back up the pagefile when I back up the
system partition. I want to back up the system partition so that I
can get my computer back quickly if the disk fails.

Aha, I see. Well, if the disk drive is less than 50% occupied, you
could probably move it to another drive on the same partition. BUT:
I don't think that's really necessary though as any decent backup
program I'm aware of except maybe XPs ntbackup.exe will let you skip
such files. Some set them to be skipped automatically for you. You also
don't want things like the System Volume Information (restore points -
they'll be useless), the goback file is you use goback, temporary
internet files, backup files, etc. etc.. There may be others you don't
want to once you get going.


02. The more RAM you have, the larger pagefile you need.

That comes from the idiotic myth that you should have a pf 1.5 times
the amount of RAM you have, which is not at all what MS intended.
1.5 time RAM is a starting figure for a 512 Meg of system RAM. The
LESS RAM you have, the more you MIGHT need a larger pagefile. Again,
it depends on what the machine is doing.

On reflection, maybe the logic is that you specify your computer with
RAM to suit the programs you want to run - or else the other way
around - and the useful amount of page file is proportional to that.
But that assumes that programs have similar behaviour and needs in
using memory.

That's not a bad way to look at it. It's a subjective thing, and I
personally like to think I specced enough RAM for what I plan to do, and
a little more for whatever happens "tomorrow".
This is a case of "more is better" up to the point of diminishing
returns, which occurs in XP 32-bit sytems at 2 or 3 Gig, depending. It's
really difficult to predict what you may actually want for RAM so I
generally say "as much as you can afford, up to 3 Gig, 4 if it's the
only way your machine will accept it.
RAM didn't used to be cheap, but it's pretty inexpensive nowadays for
most PCs. Notebooks can be the exception.


05. However much RAM you have, you should set a pagefile of at
least 50 MB on C.

Yes. I usually use 250 and have never seen 50, but ... in general
that's true. Memory dumps can only be written to C so you need to
keep something there.



06. However much RAM you have, you should set a pagefile of at
least 500 MB on C.

Same as previous. I suspect you're making up these numbers now.

Well, that one may be a typo, but I've seen it. I think these are
garbled echoes of "Must have a pagefile equal to RAM size to receive
dump in event of a crash." People see a size reflecting their RAM -
actually, 50 MB is more likely to be the typo - and they repeat
online, "For a crash dump you need a 126 MB swap file." And as I say,
who /does/ want a crash dump?

You "might", depending on the kind of trouble you get into. If you take
your machine to a shop for repair, it can be pretty useful to them. A
"dump" is a description of the states of the computer at the point where
it crashed so it's really a trouble-shooting tool.
That's why there is a mini-dump and a full dump. You size the pf to
accept a mini-dump; a couple hundred k or so.


This is a new netbook, so I'm not looking to fit upgrades in it -
except maybe RAM - it /is/ the upgrade.

Ahh, you've been afflicted with NTS (New Toy Syndrome)! Been there,
done that! <g>


Here's my thinking now: a notebook hard disk is priced maybe 1 USD per
gigabyte. So if I assign maximum permitted size of one pagefile, 4
gigabytes, I am spending 4 dollars on it. I can afford four dollars
and I get to stop fussing and just enjoy my new computer. On the
other hand, if the pagefile gets full of digital junk then it'll take
up to one DVD on its own to back up that file, and time, and I don't /
need/ to back it up.

True! Being forward thinknig enough to account for "tomorrow" is the
trick you need. The hard drive should be large enough that you can
foresee it being plenty of room at 80% of that size for say the next 3
years. That's under "current plans". But if, say tomorrow, you get a
new digital camera and suddenly start storing hundreds, maybe thousands
of pics on it, well it could get small pretty quick!
IMO again, the best situation is 500 Gig drives for internals and a 1
Gig external drive for backup storage. This machine originally came
with an 80 Gig drive several years ago. Then I added a 500 Gig internal
drive. All 7200 rpm drives. Since then Iv'e split the first 80 Gig
drive into C and D: The OS and everything I've downloaded from the
internet and want to keep. Research, programs, troubleshooting tips,
articles, papers, etc. etc.. If it's on drive D, it came from Internet
downloads. The second drive is E through H, each for its own specific
purpose, two of which are for video work because those drives require
frequent defrags when they get used. So I can start a defrag or
whatever onthe video drives and go do other work on the different drives
without impacting the ongoing defrag.
I now also have two external 1 Gig drives that I rotate on a monthly
basis. That seems wasteful until you find out that I lost a LOT of data
when my first one went belly up on me; catastrophic, unrecoverable
failure. Not only did I not have DVDs of the most recent monthly, but I
also had a lot of data on it that was unique, not saved in other places.
I was stupid, I admit it! So now I have two external drives. They get
traded each month as to which one is connected and powered, so there
should be no way to lose more than a month's worth of data, ever. Even
if lightning takes out the whole room of equipment, I still have that
unconnected drive with good data on it less than a month old. At first
that made me lazy about creating my DVD sets, but I've since fixed that
by automating the process and annoying myself with frequent notices that
it's time to do it, until I do it!<g>


Of course if a product such as Ghost can back up system but skip the
pagefile and the hibernation file - well, can they?

YES, Ghost can skip ANY file or folder during backups. The most common
ones are selected for you, like the pagefile, Volume, *.baks, *.wbk and
a few more I forget right now. It's very handy IMO.


With a Linux live CD backup process, the tool comes to me free and I
don't have to consider how many machines of my own - or friends if it
comes to that - I'm licensed on. But it may be worth paying the money
there, too.

Umm, I don't know. It sounds subjective to me and would depend on what
you wanted vs what it can give you. So I don't have any way of comparing
the two.

I'm trying to move to Linux myself but there are still drivers missing
that I absolutely have to have or some expensive equipment will need
replacement, not something I can afford. I am sure however that XP is
my last Microsoft operating system even if they find a way to
forecefully make me abandon it, as they've done with some of their
development tools. I haven't yet found a Linux replacement for
PaintShop Pro either, but I'm always looking. The common ones like Gimp,
etc. just don't cut it for the kind of work I do but patience may pay
off, I hope. I see a lot of projects going on.


Thank you for giving your opinions! And hey, what do you think about
anti-virus and security software? This netbook came with a trial of
Norton's "2009" offering, but I like F-Secure, and at the store
there's a steep discount on Kaspersky, for up to three PCs...

Again, that's subjective; I'm currently using a bundle I purchased at a
cut rate at Symantec of Norton 2009 NAV (antivirus), NIS (Internet
Security) and SystemWorks. The 2009 version works well, has a much
smaller footprint than it used to and IMO more useful bells & whistles
than anyone else. BUT ... their virus subscriptions have gotten so
expensive, they're offputting me at the moment. BUT again, with Norton
you get a turn-key application. With the others, many of which are also
free so far, you end up with three to five or more separate applications
to acieve what Norton is giving me all in one app. I've had occasion to
use their tech support last winter too and they were top notch, besides
being quick. But we all know that sort of thing varies with the culture
at any place, so ... who knows what it's like today<g>? Or tomorrow?
One of the biggies I lke with Norton is their auto update seems to be
rock solid and never requires attention.
Only downside I can think of, is when you switch off scanning
incoming emails you get an error situation on the system tray. They
claim, and apparently it's true, to have fixed the problems of messing
up emails by scanning them. I've had it turned back on for the last
several months and nary a problem, even though I do e-mails sometimes
when the sytem is very busy and the cpu is maxed out at near 100%. But
the good news is, it's not using my pagefile<G>!! lol, sorry, couldn't
resist.

HTH a little, & enjoy!

Twayne`





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